Hashkafah.com > Doing All 39 Melachot In One Shot

critic

Jul 14 2005, 12:40 PM

The gemara for the last several pages constantly mentions a case of a person doing all 39 melachot at once. I understand that helam echad means in one 'yediah' but I was wondering...can anyone come up with a case where someone can manage to do all 39 melachot at once?

Nechama

Jul 14 2005, 12:43 PM

I think CMH's friend had a essay about a way to do all the melachot in one shabbos, but thats not "at once".

Silent J

Jul 14 2005, 10:00 PM

Any Answers?

Gabbe

Jul 17 2005, 11:49 AM

No such case can exist, because several of the Melachos are mutually exclusive. For Example, one cannot erase and write, or plant and reap, or tear and mend...in the same activity.

int

Jul 17 2005, 12:52 PM

QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jul 17 2005, 12:49 PM)

No such case can exist, because several of the Melachos are mutually exclusive. For Example, one cannot erase and write, or plant and reap, or tear and mend...in the same activity.
[right][snapback]268721[/snapback][/right]

What if you do it as part of one movement? E.g. you have a pen with an eraser on one end and ink on the other and it's shaped like a U. You hold it upside down and as one end is writing the other end is erasing. Similar for other mutually exclusive things. In fact, you can have 39 ends (39-pronged wwwww-shaped-stick), where each end would be doing a distinct melacha. One would be striking a matchcase surface lighting a fire, the other would be plowing, another woudl be writing, etc. If you push this melacha-stick with one movement, then you can do all 39 melachas at once.

Gabbe

Jul 17 2005, 01:04 PM

QUOTE(int @ Jul 17 2005, 01:52 PM)

QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jul 17 2005, 12:49 PM)

No such case can exist, because several of the Melachos are mutually exclusive. For Example, one cannot erase and write, or plant and reap, or tear and mend...in the same activity.
[right][snapback]268721[/snapback][/right]

What if you do it as part of one movement? E.g. you have a pen with an eraser on one end and ink on the other and it's shaped like a U. You hold it upside down and as one end is writing the other end is erasing. Similar for other mutually exclusive things. In fact, you can have 39 ends (39-pronged wwwww-shaped-stick), where each end would be doing a distinct melacha. One would be striking a matchcase surface lighting a fire, the other would be plowing, another woudl be writing, etc. If you push this melacha-stick with one movement, then you can do all 39 melachas at once.
[right][snapback]268748[/snapback][/right]

to the best of my knowledge, according to the generally accepted shita in the gemara, kim lei b'd'rabba minei would not apply to such a case.

doodlehead

Jul 18 2005, 06:21 PM

QUOTE(int @ Jul 17 2005, 01:52 PM)

QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jul 17 2005, 12:49 PM)

No such case can exist, because several of the Melachos are mutually exclusive. For Example, one cannot erase and write, or plant and reap, or tear and mend...in the same activity.
[right][snapback]268721[/snapback][/right]

What if you do it as part of one movement? E.g. you have a pen with an eraser on one end and ink on the other and it's shaped like a U. You hold it upside down and as one end is writing the other end is erasing. Similar for other mutually exclusive things. In fact, you can have 39 ends (39-pronged wwwww-shaped-stick), where each end would be doing a distinct melacha. One would be striking a matchcase surface lighting a fire, the other would be plowing, another woudl be writing, etc. If you push this melacha-stick with one movement, then you can do all 39 melachas at once.
[right][snapback]268748[/snapback][/right]

If you had all that in a machine with a lot of arms and you pushed a button to do all those melachos at the same time, would that be considered you doing them?

simpleTorah

Jul 18 2005, 07:05 PM

QUOTE(doodlehead @ Jul 18 2005, 07:21 PM)

QUOTE(int @ Jul 17 2005, 01:52 PM)

QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jul 17 2005, 12:49 PM)

No such case can exist, because several of the Melachos are mutually exclusive. For Example, one cannot erase and write, or plant and reap, or tear and mend...in the same activity.
[right][snapback]268721[/snapback][/right]

What if you do it as part of one movement? E.g. you have a pen with an eraser on one end and ink on the other and it's shaped like a U. You hold it upside down and as one end is writing the other end is erasing. Similar for other mutually exclusive things. In fact, you can have 39 ends (39-pronged wwwww-shaped-stick), where each end would be doing a distinct melacha. One would be striking a matchcase surface lighting a fire, the other would be plowing, another woudl be writing, etc. If you push this melacha-stick with one movement, then you can do all 39 melachas at once.
[right][snapback]268748[/snapback][/right]

If you had all that in a machine with a lot of arms and you pushed a button to do all those melachos at the same time, would that be considered you doing them?
[right][snapback]269673[/snapback][/right]

According to Hazon Ish (and Rav Elhanan Wasserman), any normal machine way of doing things is considered a direct action (melakha) amd not indirect (gerama).

simpleTorah

Jul 18 2005, 07:10 PM

QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jul 17 2005, 12:49 PM)

No such case can exist, because several of the Melachos are mutually exclusive. For Example, one cannot erase and write, or plant and reap, or tear and mend...in the same activity.
[right][snapback]268721[/snapback][/right]

When one erases the corner of the daled thereby creatinng a resh, one is hayyav for both writing and erasing*. When one prunes a branch that one wants for firewood, one is hayyav for both planting and reaping, and when one tears material into a specific shape that also creates a garment, one is hayyav for both tearing and sewing/makeh be-patish**.

* According to Rambam, one can only be hayyav for one korban if the action had only one purpose - even if such action-purpose could be fit under more than one category.

** See Yerushalmi, and rishonim