This question is posed with respect -- please don't get angry.

I'm actually wondering if there's an answer to why the Rebbe didn't name a successor.

So many Baalei Tshuvah went off the derech. And the lubavitch split up into groups that hate each other (check out chabad.org chabad.net and chabad.com)

So, even if the Rebbe couldn't have a child -- is there an explanation for why he didn't name a successor? I know he may have been "ill" (yes, this is up to dispute, it may or may not be true that he was in dementia -- I have no basis to believe either way) in his last few years, but he had a heart attack in the 1970's when he was certainly mentally fine -- surely then he must have realized that naming a successor would be a good thing.

So many people went off or left lubavitch, or hated their neighbors. THere's the group at 770, and the group that meets at the Rebbe's house (and each think the other group is going to hell).

So all in all, the Rebbe not naming a successor was arguably a bad thing. Why didn't he? Is there a reason that makes sense?

With all due respect -- really. I just don't understand.

I think the most plausable answer is that there WAS no successor to name.
Someone is either Rebbe material or he is not, and frankly I don't see anyone today in Lubab that even comes close to fitting the bill.

What would be the point of appointing yet another "Purim Rebbe" who puts on an act? Anyone who wants one has plenty to choose from today, no need to make a new one.

The fact that people so often ask this question shows that they don't really understand what a Rebbe is.

Who says I'm claiming to know? Am I not allowed to not know? Are we not allowed to ask questions about that which we do not know? Is "you don't understand" the proper answer for someone with questions?

So explain it!! Don't put people who have questions down. There's a certain level of pragmatism that one would expect. Would the Rebbe be satisfied with the current level of discord within lubavitch? Was it the right answer to let this happen? People haven risen up and taken power within Lubavitch anyway (shmuel butman, or whatever - so it's not like leaders haven't evolved in the fragments). But there are sects, and the whole missions of bringing people into the fold is hurt.

Gosh Darn it! Don't just say "you just don't understand because you have a question." Answer the question!!! Help the people who don't understand understand! That's what annoys me most about orthodox judaism -- the tendency of some to squash questions by demeaning those who ask! It's ok to ask! People SHOULD ask what they don't understand. And people who have answers should supply them rather than push the questions away.

If anything pushed me away from being frum, it's answers like the one you gave.
"oh, you just don't understand if you dare to ask." Even if I don't understand the Rebbe, I can guarantee you that he'd hate your answer! Because it's ANTI KIRUV!!! You are awful in your answer!

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BAD BAD BAD! Your demeaning answer is terrible and horrible and awful! I hope you are not representative of any group!

In case you don't get my sentiment, here: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Razie, I totally agree with you.
His response was very rude and condescending.

I disagree. He wasn't being personal. He obviously feels strongly about the issue, yet has no answers. I don't think anyone really knows.

mosheshmeal
.

Razie, sorry I'm not sure what got you so upset I thought KR gave a very good answer, read it again, he's saying that being a Rebbe is a position of enormous responsibility and requires a person on a very very high level. It isn't like appointing a new rabbi of a shul, where someone who's knowledgeable enough and pleasant enough would do. A Rebbe is really an exceptional position, requiring, basically, a holy person. And it is very very plausibile that the L.R. simply did not see anyone worthy of filling such a position, and didn't want to appoint just any old chassid to it. It's sad, and has led to many unfortunate developments, but an organization led by a loose consensus may be better than one led by a poor leader -- especially when we're talking about chassidim, and the standard the prior Lubavitcher Rebbes have set.

Razie, you are asking a question on what one person did. There is no way for anyone to know what he was thinking, and we will never find out, because he is dead. Get it? D-E-A-D, finished, caput (hope I'm not offending Lubavitchers). This type of question can get that type of answer without turning someone off-you dont know what he was thinking and neither do I-we are not mind readers. It is however a completely unacceptable answer when it comes to questions on torah and hashkafah.

I thought the rebbe lived at 770...

Thats an assumption that I would disagree with.
Also, IMHO, Lubavitch has only gotten stronger with every year. At a recent trip to CA, I was really impressed by how much kiruv they continue to do in the most remote areas.

True. The number of shluchim has grown exponetially.

I also agree. It was somewhat rude. Some lubavicher , even when being nice say, well you just dont understand the concept of a rebbe. It means that it is a thing that they might have heard or in a small way experienced, but dont understand enough to explain.

Come on, seriously, there's really no need at all to be using this kind of language when talking about a tzaddik. I know there are a lot of crazy people out there who have their issues, but you're not addressing any of them here, so please show some respect.

:/

Oooooppppssss!!! I didn't mean it to sound that way-didn't mean to disrespect a tzaddik, just pointing out that since he is dead it doesn't help to question why he did it cuz we'll never know, and I didn't want people to start arguing that he is alive....

Back to the question:
No rebbe ever names his succesor, to my knowledge. The succesor is chosen by the chassidim after the rebbe's petira.
But every generation has leaders and it is symptomatic that Lubavitch is largely leaderless. It is also saying something that in one of the largest chassidic movements in the world there is not a single person who is considered to be on the level of rebbe. I dont mean on the level of the previous rebbe, but on the level of rebbe period.

Do you never ask why other people acting a certain way such as Eliezer or Bitya Eliyahu or the others who never died?

Asking questions about people in the torah is different. Their actions caused the rest of the torah, and you gain something by figuring it out. It also helps you understand contradictions in the torah, and brings out many important lessons. I dont think this applies to the present generation.
The torah talks about only 4 people who never died and yes I believe that. Those people lived like 3000 years ago, and no, I dont believe anyone nowadays could be on their madreiga. Melech, do YOU believe the rebbe is still alive?

The question is a good question. In fairness, I think Kalashinakover's answer was good, but not complete. I see why it was taken to be condescending, but I don't think it was meant that way.

The fact is that many people don't know what a Rebbe really is. Many people think that a Rebbe is sort of a glorified rosh yeshiva, and this really isn't the case. A rosh yeshiva can be (hopefully is) a chochom amongst chochomim, and a community leader. In the case of many rashei yeshiva, being rosh yeshiva of a certain yeshiva affords great and well-deserved recognition throughout the Jewish world. So when I compare a Rebbe to an RY, its not to say that a Rebbe is quantitatively differeny from a RY. The position is totally different.

The notion of a Rebbe is based on a kabbalistic concept (that is explained in Tanya, the Rebbe's own Sichos, and elsewhere). What it comes down to (stripped of the technical stuff) is that the Rebbe is aware of the world's spiritual superstructure on a very intimate level. Every Jew is united through their Yechida (the highest "level" of the soul). But the Rebbe is aware of that unity very intimately. In other words, the Rebbe can "see around the world" and can "look into your soul," (to borrow a couple of cliches).

That kind of a person is not just hard to come by. He has to be annointed by G-d. A person, through his own avoda, can reach to grear heights. But a Tzaddik Gamur like the Rebbe has to have an additional pull from above. There is only one such Tzaddik in a generation.

There is none now save the Rebbe.

Another reason is perhaps more interesting. There has never been a named successor in the history of Lubavitch. Go back through our history, and look. You'll find that the Alter Rebbe himself did not even choose to be the Rebbe over White Russia (or even his part of White Russia). That position was forced upon him when the Kalisker disowned him. The Alter Rebbe himself claimed to be a shaliach of Menachem Mendel of Vitebsk. When the Vitebsker was nistalek, and his Chassidim recognized the Kalisker as his successor, a rift began to grow between him and the Alter Rebbe concerning the spread of the deep concepts of Chassidus. The Kalisker finally sent a letter (He was in EY) to the White Russian communities claiming that he had severed ties with the Alter Rebbe. That, if anything, started his line of Chassidus. Until then, he didn't have people what were Chabad Chassidim, so to speak. They were Chassidim in the network of White Russian Chassidisim (practically, many of them were Chassidim of the AR already, but when the Kalisker defined the AR as "something different," many more people specifically began to identify themselves by him. In other words, the Chassidim chose him.

He did not appoint a successor either. There are stories about how he told two Chassidim in confidence that he wanted his son Dov Ber to be Rebbe. But these stories are not germane: the alter Chassidim did not define Dov Ber's Chassidus. The fact that the masses chose him over R' Aharon of Strashelia (many chose R' Aharon, but the majority chose Dov Ber) defined his Chassidus.

He did not select his nephew Menachem Mendel (the Tzemach Tzedek) to be Rebbe. But he was the natural candidate and the Chassidim followed him.

The Tzemach Tzedek had a number of sons. Many of them became Admorim in different cities. For a number of years, the Kapuster Chassidim were said to outnumber the Lubavitcher Chassidim, for example. But in Lubavitch, they chose R' Shmuel to be their Rebbe. There was no mandate from above. This came from below.

etc.

The Rebbe himself was not really selected by the Rebbe Rayatz. There were two people vying for Rebbe at the same time from 1951-1953 until the Rebbe Rayatz's son-in-law R' Shmaryahu Gourari stepped down. The stories from that time are difficult to understand because they oftentimes paint two separate pictures.

1.) The Rebbe very reluctantly accepting the position of leadership over his new Chassidim in 1951. and
2.) The Chassidim continuing to assert the Rebbe's leadership despite the RaShaG's claim to be the worthy successor.

Of course, both of these things are true in a way. The Rebbe was a reluctant leader. He was picked by his Chassidim, though. (In an aside, he and R' Gourari had a very good relationship).

And now, we don't want "another Rebbe." There are two main reasons for this:

1.) There is no obvious candidate (but this reason is not compelling to me).
2.) The Rebbe is our Rebbe. He promised us that Moshiach would come during this generation, and that we would all march out of golus with him. We don't want another Rebbe. We want our Rebbe. A Rebbe speaks only truth, so we trust that what he told is was true: that we would all march out of golus with him!

How is the succession process going in other chassidic groups, especially the large ones?

No, of course I don't believe the Rebbe is still alive. And belief is the wrong word - it almost invites an alternative belief when it's a fact that the Rebbe died and was buried. Maybe you're confusing me with my mother-in-law.

But I do believe it's possible to ask why gedolim did what they did. I can ask why the Steipler wouldn't wear a shatnez coat in Siberia and I can ask why the Rambam lived in Egypt and I can ask why the Lubavitch Rebbe didn't choose a successor. The latter isn't such a bizarre question - people seem to know why the Rebbe did almost everything he did. Seems a little strange that this is the one thing that's seemingly inexplicable.

Edit: Not 4. More like 7 to 9 according to Chazal. But significantly none of them are described as having been buried, which the Rebbe was. After he died.

I definitely understand asking to see if there was maybe a deeper meaning, but here no one knows. I was trying to point out that this is not the type of question to get turned off by, by not getting an answer.

By the way, we always learnt there were 4 people who never died. Who were the others?

Fighting tooth and nail and getting in the news every day and causing a big chillul Hashem.

Depends whom you ask. The list in Mesechet Derech Eretz (you can find it in a standard Shas at the back of Eduyot along with the other minor mesechtot) is:
Chanoch, Eliyahu, Mashiach, Eliezer (Avraham's servant), Oved (melech ha-kushim), Chiram, Yaavetz (the son or grandson of R. Yehudah Ha-nasi), Serach, Bitya. Some substitute R. Yehoshua Ben Levi instead of Chiram.

Thank you Moshi, and TheRabbi, and others, and especially Meshulam for seemingly honest attempts at more complete answers.

I got riled because I took K.R.’s answer to mean “By asking you show just how unqualified you are to ask.” And I’ve gotten that answer many times in the course of my life when I have, in good faith, questioned hashkafa or other things.

If that wasn’t the intention, then I really sincerely apologize for being choshev and give K.R. a Brocha that he should live long and prosper. Seriously. If it wasn't the intention, I'm very sorry.

What I don't understand and find hard to reconcile is the idea that it is so difficult to be a rebbe yet somehow, apparently miracualously, there were nine in a row. And, then now, all of a sudden it's too hard to find one.

I apologize if I was interpreted as being rude or condescending, I didn't intend to be either and I think you misunderstood me and my intentions.

I DID answer your question though, again IMHO a VERY plausible reason the Rebbe did not choose a successor and none arose is because there IS NO qualified successor alive today in Chabad.

The part about not knowing what a rebbe is was NOT meant to be rude or curt. Most non chassidic people don't understand this and they equate a Rebbe with a big Rosh Yeshiva, or Rav which is not at all the case. People don't understand that a Rebbe is literally a "different metzius" from a regular person, has a neshoma from the highest world, and a neshoma clallis so that he can relate to each and every Jew and properly guide them to their proper path in Avodas Hashem. You either ARE a Rebbe or you are you are NOT, nothing can "turn you into one".

The fact that many people think that you can just "name a successor" (again not at ALL meant to be condescending or rude) and it would be better than the current situation shows that they are not aware of the special and unique nature of a Tzaddik and even more so a Rebbe and that finding a replacement is no simple matter.

My intention was to express and emphasize how HIGH the level of a true Rebbe is, not insult you for asking the question which was by no means a stupid one.

Also the issue is a painful one and an open wound. It is similar to someone having a precious family heirloom Kiddush cup stolen from them and then becoming really upset about it. Then someone comes along and says "Well why not just buy another becher?, What's the point of being upset"? Obviously he COULD just "buy another one" but it wouldn't take away the pain at all of losing the old one which was priceless and irreplaceable.

I was also lamenting the state of many "Rebbes" today who really aren't cut out for the Job and took the reigns either for personal reasons, or because they are the best suited even though they are not really qualified and therefore "they are better than nothing". All I meant to say is that a fake "purim" Rebbe is most definitely worse than nothing even with all the dangers of not having a leader incur including the state of Chabad today. Or the cases in other Chasidic dynasties when a successor WAS picked but was contested leading to several really nasty feuds.

Believe me I would love nothing more to have a Flesh and Blood Rebbe in Chabad today. But there just isn't anyone who fits the bill and that is not implying that there aren't great people but being great doesn't automatically qualify you for being a Rebbe.

I also believe that the Rebbe really thought that Moshiach would have been here by now and that this discussion would have been superfluous.... Unfortunately we were not zoiche....

Many Chassidic dynasties no longer exist today because no successor was found. Look at Breslov, they NEVER had another Rebbe. People either "moved on" and became chassidim of another Rebbe or they didn't, but that doesn't by any means imply you can just "appoint someone".

That's a very misleading example. Breslov never had a "rebbe" yes, but they always had a "manhig" who ran things and did pretty much what a rebbe does in other places.
As far as the kiddush cup example that KR mentioned: at the end of the day you still need a kiddush cup to make kiddush with. There is no point in bemoaning how great the old one was if you are currently without. So too a rebbe.
Again, it is telling that out of thousands of chassidim there isnt one "qualified" to be rebbe.

(This was actually already discussed, at length, in another thread; but its a always a hot topic, anyways)

1. Finding a successor to be Rebbe is not just finding someone with the brains, skills and motivation. A Rebbe is not a job to be filled; rather, acc. to Chabad Chassidus itself (said over by the Lubavitcher Rebbe himself) is the spiritual head of the Jewish People. Based on a discourse in the Tzemach Tzedek's Derech Mitzvosecha, in which he explains the true reason for a select number of mitzvos: He explains the mitzva of loving your fellow as yourself and why it is specifically "like your self." The reason he gives, based on the Zohar, is that the Jewish people, as far as the souls are concerned, are one collective body. Some people are the feet some people are the hands. Everyone has there specific purpose in life just like each part of the body serves its purpose. A Rebbe is the head. The part with the eyes. The part that has the G-dly perception and it his job to deliver what he is seeing to the rest of the Jewish People (just like a brain to the rest of the body). So a Rebbe is not just a job, it is a part of reality of the Jewish People. It can't just be chosen. If there is not a "new head" down in the physical world, then the Rebbe cannot assign a successor. He remains the Rebbe in such a scenario. Yes, even after his passing because the soul never dies. It is everlasting and his soul is still connected to all the people of this generation (in the words of the Rebbe: "whethere they are aware of it or not").

2. This in not true in any significant amount.

3. No one thinks that anyone is going to hell.

4. Regarding the passing of the previous Rebbe, the Rebbe said that we now have an advanage because of his passing. Before, he was limited to the confines of the physical body, and now he is no longer limited and is now able to do much more from above to help us. The Rebbe referred to the previous Rebbe as his Rebbe.

Yes because a chasid is not a Rebbe anymore than a dog is a cat or an apple an orange. It is momish a different metzius and has NOTHING to do with merit or personal avodas Hashem. Either yo u have such a soul or you do not.

Perhaps a better example would be a situation where there are no Kohanim, so we say why not just appoint Yisraelim to take over the Avodah in the Beis Hamikdash. It is a nice sevora, but a Yisrael is not a Kohen...

A few questions. When you say rebbe, do you mean libavich rebbes, or are all hasidic rebbes that way. Also, where there any rebbes before the bal shem tov ?

Bla bla bla. Nonsense. Who can measure ?

To my knowledge there is no successor, because its not meant to be.
The reason for this is because the Rebbe left it up to us, he did all he can to help us prepare for Moshiach and now it's up to us. An analogy would be
you could bring a horse to a river, but you can't make it drink.

Do you know all that is meant to be ?

Agreed. No one knew this rebbe was rebbe until he was chosen for it.

as a non Lubavitcher looking from the outside, it looks like the Lubavicer rebbe wanted the Lubavich to stay the way he had designed it and he feared that any succeser would change and ruin what he had built he therefore did not appoint one. He wanted to be the only real authority and did not want another rebbe to out do himself.

when you look at the lubavitcher Rebbe what do you see? do you really know about him? did you ever learn anything he ever taught? is his personality one that needs to be controlling..... if you ever found such a trait in the lubavitcher rebbe please be so kind as to give me an example

I see a man who was incerdiblu ambitios for the Jewish people and a man who had a vision for how he would like the world to be. He did not want any one else, or maybe he didi not trust any one else, to not pervert his vision and change the whole direction of the movement.

Actually, One of the Rebbe's famous mottos (pisgmamim) is that "A Rebbe does not look for followers, he looks to make leaders."

You obviously get this information from the press.
The press in general likes to focus on controversy, when in fact virtually every Lubavitcher will davven in 770 , and while there is of course a divide and major differences of oipinion, still the vast majority of people get along with each other and most of the major controversy is over power and money as in other chassidic courts and jewish gruops.
The way you present things is exaggarated.
as to your main question, this is a very good question and the way I see it is that for some reason the Rebbe did not want to appoint a succesor, and who is it for me to question the Rebbe's decision.

Actually, I personally know Lubavitchers who went off the derech because of this. And I know many other lubavitchers who stayed frum, but left lubavitch.
'
And I know of the divide in Lubavitch and the politics from someone who is/was very close with Shmuel Butman for the last 15 years. I won't mention names or anything, so you can take my source to be unreliable if you want. But I know it's not unreliable, and that's what matters.

But seriously -- please check out www.Chabad.org www.chabad.net and www.chabad.com Two of them list different headquarters. One still calls the Rebbe "Moshiach." On one of them (the west coast one), you can hardly find any mention of the Rebbe at all -- as if they're trying to hide him. And the other is a more moderate. That fact that these three organizations exist show at least some splintering.

Either there's too much Rebbe talk or not enough. Y'all need to make up your minds, it seems like we never win

Start a new Chaburah?

The California one is run by a Shaliach. Chabad.org is a website that is affiliated with the same organization that oversees many of the sluchim, including the aforementioned California shaliach. I tried to look at chabad.net, but alas no website exists. There is Chabad.info. Maybe you meant that. There are differences of opinions that are sometimes brought into the open by the existence of websites that approach the Rebbe differently.

So what? That doesn't mean anybody is at anyone else's throats. Some of us just see the world differently than some of our fellow Chassidim.

Chabad.net has been down for some time. They moved to 2 other sites:
www.chabad.fm
www.chabad.am

And I know kids who do drugs and blame it on the system, or kids who go OTD and immediately blame it on the 'system' without first examining themselves.
Not saying the 'system' can't spit people out, but in many cases it's just the excuse. Case in point, there's one young woman who changes her story in every interview... just say you didn't like being frum, case closed.

I don't understand how you can't see how this would push people off.

Suppose someone came forward with absolute concrete proof that Yetzias Metzraim never happened. Or that Avraham was made up. How would that shake your faith? If you believed that and were wrong, what else were you wrong about.

Many, many Lubavitchers believed that the Rebbe was Moshiach (and not just Zocheh to be Moshiach if we were Zocheh, but that rather, Moshiach was for sure here) and they believed that as much as they believed that Moshe stood on Har Sinaii and got the luchos. When you shake a core belief, you create doubts for all core beliefs.

Convince me that 1+1 = 3. I may stop believing that 2+2=4 too. Because if I was wrong about the former, being as sure as I was, why should I put any faith in the latter?

Chava convinced herself that it was just as bad to touch the tree -- so when that proved to be groundless, her faith in not eating from the tree shattered too. Why doesn't it seem obvious to you that this is a very reasonable reaction, and should be expected from at least some of the lubavitchers who's faith in Rebbe-is-Moshiach-for-sure-not-some-potential-hypothetical-maybe was no weaker than anything else they believed in.

I do understand, but OTOH I don't know that many people who stay on just because they believe in the one thing. Most times it's the general package, and when they leave they start tearing it apart for excuses.
I don't think I've explained myself well but I need more sleep.

This is all true in theory. In actuallity, however, most lubavitchers still believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach. So, I guess, no beliefs were shaken (except for the always existent insignificant number of exceptions).

So in addition to being wrong about Mashiach arriving before his death and hence no need for a successor, I guess he failed at being a Rebbe in that he was unsuccessful at making a leader for his movement to carry on after his death.
[NB: I am not critisizing the Rebbe, chas ve-shalom. I am critisizing the explanations of others given on h.com].

You didn't understand the pisgam. (Ben Chamesh L'mikra, oy vey...)