list'em all!

A violation of the three oaths carries a perk of having your flesh being hefker akin to the beasts that rummaging fields of the wild.

Free Ulpan

If you name is Aliza, you're just one letter away (3 in Hebrew) from Aliya.


You can do mitzvos hateluyos ba'aretz.

Israel has great weather

Israel has hotter Jewish men than the Diaspora

Warm people

Great clothes (I love the designer Ronen Chen in particular)

The dairy products can't be beat

Healthier food in general

I always lose 5-10 pounds every time I go to Israel (without trying)

I always gain weight when I go to Israel (without trying)

First of all, according to R' Zeirah the shvuah applies only to ALL of Am Yisrael going up at once , not individuals for whom there is no problem making aliyah. Also, the third shvuah obligates the akum not to oppress Am Yisrael too much, something which they clearly disregarded. Some learn that the first two oaths are contingent on the akum keeping theirs, because if they disregard it (and opress Am Yisrael too much) then a Jew is not allowed to leave themselves at their mercy, according to "and you shall guard your souls".


In fact halacha l'masseh dictates that each individual Jew is obligated to live in E"Y, except if one or more of these three situations exists for which there is a heter not to:

1) Parnasah
2) Finding a wife
3) The learning elsewhere will be better

Zehu.

As per "Ari shel Tzion" the vast, vast majority of poskem don't agree with this opinion today for various reasons.

This includes Rav Moshe Feinstein who held Yishuv HaAretz to be a Mitzvah rashus like Tzitzis. (Of course the Ramban held it's a Chiyuv Mitzvah like Matzah!) As Rav Zev Leff shlita writes if you know someone that didn't wear tzitzis, even though it's "only" a mitzvah rashus would you call him a yireah shamayim? (Rav Moshe himself was "stuck" in NY only because that's where the Jews were living and they needed him there. But before coming to NY he did strongly consider Aliyah to Eretz Yisrael.)

Furthermore most gedolim in the world in our generation live (or lived) in Eretz Yisrael. This includes Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ZT"L, Rav Shach ZT"L, Rav Elyashiv, Shlita, Rav Chaim Kanievsky, Shlita, Rav Ovodya Yosef, Shlita, Rav Shmuel Auerbach, Shlita, and the many many Rebbes that reside in Bnei Brak and Meah Sharim (among a long, long, long list of other gedolim!!!)

I would think twice before saying Loshen Hara (Mozie Sham Rah?) about these Gedolim committing a grave sin!

And finally the land itself is flourishing today giving forth tremendous fruit, the likes of which I have never seen in my life. (I ate a strawberry over Shabbos that was the size of 5 or 6 "U.S. Strawberries.") The Gemera writes that there is no clearer sign of the age of redemption that this - so stop living in the past.

So maybe you should ask one of these great Rebbes in Mea Shearim what the perks of making Aliya are. I'm pretty curious to know if the Toldos Aaron Rebbe, just to name one, agrees with your arguments.

Since no one answered the question:

1. Free or cheap health care
2. No or little tuition for your kid's education (at least by US standards)
3. New olim get good mortgage benefits
4. More Torah Based, less materialistic society.
5. You can send your 5 year old kid to the store with his 8 year old brother and not be worried sick the whole time.
6. Your kids will know Hebrew fluently which will automatically increase their level and ability to learn
7. Krembos
8. Yomtov in Israel can't be compared to anywhere else
9. Sal Klita/Nefesh B'Nefesh stipend (I got NOTHING when I came), rent subsidies and other benefits if you are married.
10. Large family stipends from the gubment.

what's Krembos?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krembo

That entry was hysterical. Especially the part about the brachos.

Wow. Does that cover it all?

Thanks. Live and learn.

And you call yourself a zionist?

Something disgusting.

Yeah, but they left out the age old question of saying shechayanu due to the seasonal nature of the Krembo...

I agree with many of these:

1. I used to pay about a $4 co-pay for going to the doctor.
The only thing is, you really have to pick and choose your doctors. Doctors in Israel are not all the best quality, especially in terms of their "bedside manner". They don't have the same fear of getting sued for malpractice that American doctors have and therefore don't always dot all their i's and cross all their t's...
And don't even get me started about the horrors of hospital care in Israel... Truly scary.

3. Yes, you get some mortgage benefits, but prices for apartments are quite high and salaries are horrendously low.

5. I totally agree with this one. Israel is a safer society for children, and really for everyone. Parents don't worry their kid will be abducted.
In addition, women can feel freer to walk alone at night without fear.

I make it a point only to go to Anglo Doctors as much as I can... But in any event, it certainly beats what you will be getting out of pocket in the US with no insurance or on medicaid....


Salaries, true (if the person in question is even WORKING) but compare the going rate for a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment in Boro Park or Willy, and compare that to most Haredi neighborhoods in J'lem or Bnai Black and it won't seem so steep anymore, certainly not to rent.
And more and more young couples are moving to places like Beitar, Beit Shemesh, Elad, Kiryat Sefer, Tel Tzion etc which is MUCH cheaper. When Tel Tzion was first built you could get a MORTGAGE for 200-250 a MONTH.....

I've had nothing but good experiences in the hospital here (I've only gone to one). Any bad part would have been bad anywhere, not b/c it was Israel. I think the fact that there are hospitals that are sensitive to halacha is the most amazing thing.

I worked briefly in a hospital - Shaarei Tzedek in Jerusalem.
The insensitivity of the nurses and some other staff there was really disturbing.
I remember one patient who had had a leg amputated, and was complaining about continuing severe pain. The nurses ignored him for hours, so I brought it to their attention. One said to me, "I gave him an Acamol, what is he complaining about?" (FYI: Acamol is an over-the-counter pain medication roughly eqivalent to aspirin, hardly adequate for someone who has just had a surgical amputation of his leg!)
I was, to put it mildly, not impressed.

Interesting

Gotta agree with those 2. We've been having a pretty ok winter (compared to the one that my parents are currently experiencing in T.O), and the dairy products are awesome. I don't like the stuff at home anymore.



5) I LOVE seeing the little kids going to the makolet by themselves. It's the cutest thing.
7)

Well if they hold it's assur to live in Eretz Yisrael you answer me this: why are they here?

Do you honestly think nurses' attitudes are exclusive to Israeli hospitals?

Acamol the brand name of is paracetolmol. The same thing as acetaminiphin (brand name: tylenol).
There are many hospitals in Israel, all different. The level of pain management is definitely far below US standards.



Now ask about "glida chamah".



Living in E"Y is not what they hold to be assur. Making aliyah and getting hanna'ah from the medinah is. Two slightly different things. The level of difference is dependent on how itellectually honest one is as to what "getting hanna'ah" means.

Oh, it's a Negerkuss! (The most socially unacceptable name for snack ever conceived by the German people). Never had it in Israel, but I use to eat them till I was sick in Germany.

D.i.c.k.manns brand Schaumkussen (whatever, everyone calls them Negerkussen) are kosher Cholov Stam on the German "kosher list"

Exactly. Can you imagine an American nurse (no matter how dreadful her bedside manner) offering Tylenol to a recent amputee to manage his pain?
I feel like in general, the Israeli medical establishment's attitude toward pain management is "Just suck it up."

That or "optalgin" cures everything. (a pain killer equivalent to acamol in effectiveness but considered unsafe in the states)

It's totally ridiculous.
Do they actually have any painkillers stronger than over the counter aspirin in Israel?

The original reply was to a comment that living in Eretz Yisrael is assur.

Putting the medina aside they're certianly are spiritual "perks" to living in Eretz Yisrael. Among them Birchat Cohenim every morning, davening at the kotel, and being able to keep the mitzvos of trumot, maser and shmetah just to name a few.

Pure codeine is OTC in Israel....

Yes, codeine (codical, codacamol, rocacet) is OTC but hospitals won't give it to you. Its pretty dumb/ ignorant to go into an Israeli hospital without your own supply of pain meds.
There are also the regular narcotics (oxy, percocet) but you have to be in serious, constant (chronic) pain to get an rx for it. And the doc has to really want to give it to you. You will not get those in a hospital or after a procedure (eg. froma dentist).

Ah. sorry I missed that.


Uh, yeah. I live here. Do you?

Why yes, you do. I just figured out who you are.

Borach Hashem Yom Yom! (You even had me over for lunch once.)



Yup! That's me!

Does it strike anyone as strange that you need to bring your OWN supply of painkillers when going into an Israeli hospital for surgery?

What do you care, its not like you live here?


Yes, its strange/ different. But its free, what we can get, and we live with it.

Maybe I was lucky? I've only been in the hospital for birth-related issues, so maybe it's different? No problem getting demorol, no problem getting an epidural. No problem getting Petidin, chose between a spinal and general.

That was FOR the birth. And not after surgery. Very different. I know what I'm talking about. They do not deal with pain management anything like the way it is handled in america. Believe me. You should never know what its like to be in serious pain, or hospitalized for illness in either country, to have what to compare.

Amen.

What do I care?
I used to live there.
And I may live there again in the future.

What if a patient does not come to the hospital with "their own supply of painkillers"?
What if it's an emergency/accident, and the patient did not expect to be operated on/hospitalized, and have no family coming to visit them/bring them painkillers?
Do doctors truly not provide painkillers for patients in Israel after surgery? I find this very strange.

I was in that position. I lived. They'll live too.
It might suck, but its reality. It could be worse. And some hospitals are downright incompetent (Ziv). Lack of pain management is truly a very small issue compared to others encountered in some Israeli hospitals such as unnecessary near amputations and dangerous misdiagnoses because of bad test reading skills and general incompetence. You are really getting up in arms about something fairly inconsequential.

Pain management is not inconsequential.
When someone goes into the hospital, they trust their medical issues, including pain, will be addressed.
Why don't Israeli hospitals address this?

Lack of pain management can cause an increase in psychiatric symptoms including suicidal and homicidal behavior.
Managing patients' pain just makes good sense.
Why don't Israeli hospitals do so?

Talk about not reading what was written.

Maybe you should post in the "making yeridah forum".

What makes you say that?

Kalishnikover-- I agree, well said!!

But one thing to add that I don't think was mentioned... what about the beauty of the actual land?! That alone is a major perk of living in E"Y!

Of course!

Welcome to the forum, oleh2be! When can I greet you at the airport?

I wish I could tell you!! I hope to make aliyah in about a yr and a half or so, when I'm done with high school.