What's the heter for this concert with live music to begin with? It's not Rosh Chodesh? It's not Melava Malka? It's not a simcha? Futhermore what about live music in Yerushalayim? I guess since it's not within the old city perhaps...

Anyway...



http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/New.../123256#replies

Rabbinical "Ban" on Hassidic Music Concerts

by Hillel Fendel

(IsraelNN.com) Hassidic music stars Avraham Fried and Yaakov Shwekey are to perform in Jerusalem before an audience of over 10,000 Thursday night - but leading hareidi-religious Rabbis Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, the Gerrer Rebbe and others say it's forbidden to participate or attend events of that nature.

Flashy posters all over Jerusalem and elsewhere advertise a high-powered Hassidic music concert scheduled for Thursday evening at Teddy Stadium. It features two of the genre's greatest stars, Fried and Shwekey, as well as guest appearances by Aharon Razel and the up-and-coming Elad Shaar. Called "L'Chaim in Jerusalem," the event commemorates the 40th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem, and will feature an extra-large orchestra.

A damper was placed on the event, however, in the form of a rabbinic ban appearing in the hareidi-religious press. The ban is signed by leading rabbis including Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, the Gerrer and Bezler Rabbis, Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman, Rabbi Shmuel HaLevy Vozner, Rabbi Chaim Pinchas Sheinberg, and more. .

The Rabbincal statement reads: "We trembled at hearing about the terrible breach in our camp of 'music evenings' and 'concerts' in which musicians sing before men and women sitting together, Heaven forefend, and even not together. All Torah leaders have in the past clearly forbidden these events, even when men and women are separate."

The rabbis say the ban applies to men, women and children and of course the performers. Newspapers are not permitted to advertise these events, according to the ad, and musicians who sing "in front of men and women together" must not be invited to sing at other events.

A source close to one of the above rabbis told Arutz-7 he was unsure of the grounds for the ban. He opined that it could be because of the mixing of the genders outside the event, but added, "This is very puzzling, because why then is there a difference between performers - who are penalized only if they sing before a mixed crowd - and the general public, which is forbidden to attend under all circumstances?" Another source said that it was possibly the rock-and-roll atmosphere prevalent at events of this nature that might be the problem, though this was not mentioned in the ban.

One source said he believes one of the rabbis signed this ban several years ago, and that it was not presented to him again. Others expressed a lack of confidence in the entire system of "signed rabbinic decisions," in that it is not clear how the situation was presented to the rabbis. There have even been cases of rabbis who said their names were "signed" on various announcements without their permission.

"It is known that Rabbi Moshe Feinstein [the pre-eminent Torah authority in the U.S. in the 20th century - ed.] permitted events of this nature if the proceeds were for charity," a source close to one of the rabbis said, "as is the case in Thursday's concert, so I'm not sure how to understand this."

Producer Moshe Ben-Zimra told the NRG website in response: "Men and women will be totally separated at the event, including separate entrances, and everything is taking place under the supervision of great rabbis. I greatly respect the rabbis who signed the ban, but they were misled by their underlings whose purpose is simply to liquidate Hassidic music in Israel. The rabbis don't realize that this event is kosher and maintains the laws of modesty. Over 10,000 people have already bought tickets, and they can rely upon the Torah rabbis who support separate and modest events of this nature."

I think it is interesting that the producer of the event put the blame on the underlings of the rabbis and not the rabbis themselves. As if it is completely out of the realm of possibility that those rabbis would have a problem with the event.

Is it only me or does it seem very silly to go to concert with one's girlfriend or spouse and then sit in different sections of the stadium?

Who says there was ever a heter to begin with? Something arguably in violation of halachah was planned ruled that it's in violation of halachah. Kudos to them, in my opinion. I don't think they are implying it was heretofore permitted.


I'm not sure that's entirely accurate or compelling.

why is it arguably prohibited by halacha? the only thing i can think of is live music in Yerushalayim, but i don't know all the details about it, and assume it's not the first one of its kind there, so it must be Ok somehow. in addition, the article doesn't mention this problem, but only mixing of genders.

and if it's not indeed the first one, how come the ban came out just now? they do these concerts all the time in NYC, no one said anything all this time.

what bothered me was the quote that one of the rabbis was thought to sign this ban a few years ago and it's being used now. i dont' get it - if that's true, once that rabbi sees those posters, etc with his name, he is not surprised this situation wasn't presented to him now and he signed nothing now? and another thing is that they are unsure how the situation was presented to the rabbonim. this is getting out of hand already. arent' there clear facts - these and these famous hareidi singers are singing, this orchestra is playing, the proceeds go to this tzeddakah (if they do), there are separate seatings and even entrances ofr men and women?

as far as i understand, this concert is organized by hareidi people for hareidi people. the rabbonim who signed the ban are the leading rabbonim of this generation, and the concert organizers don't seem to have a choice here. on the other hand, 10,000 tickets were sold already

http://www.koltorah.org/ravj/13-32%20Jewis...0on%20Music.htm

I'm sure this has absolutely NOTHING at all to do with the fact that the concert is in honor of the 40th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem.....
There have been MANY concerts before and not a PEEP of resistance, suddenly all the troops have been rallied, WHY???

This is just another (poorly) veiled attempt to undermine the heretical tzinoyim and ensure that no one in the Haredi community even tacitly thanks or is grateful to them.....

I missed that point. Can I still revise my answer?

(my quote button doesn't work)
really? if the reason is the concert's reason (oy, i know, bad sentence), then they are treading on thin water. nothing is mentioend about it and there were concerts as large as this before. how can they do it? i'm not even going into the depth of whether it's or wrong to celebrate the occasion, but the way its' done and looks. it's sooo fishy.

Melech - the conclusion in that link says that , that's definitely not an issue here. all other views - i think only "frivolous activity" can be applied here.

Yes, of course, but I would suggest bringing your OPS detector into the shop, it may need to be recalibrated.....

1) I don't know the details of the situation.
2) I don't have the patience to read the whole opening post.
3) I did hear about this when my husband said to me "did you hear that the gedolim banned concerts?" I said "they were always assur" (he said his friend who told him said the same thing. ).

I THEN replied that I don't like these general bans. Why? Because in a place like NY with lotsa' ppl, lotsa' crowds a concert may often turn into a major social event, lots of drinking, inappropriate actions from both genders.

However, if there is a concert in a small city, separate seating, calmer - and the most "action" is a couple of yeshiva bochurim dancing in a circle near the stage, I see nothing wrong with it. This is why Im not for generic bans but for situational decisions.

(of course based on some of these replies, it does seem that this is for a particular concert and not the general concert concept, so then I don't really have an opinion.)

That's the private didactic message of the author, that since the reality is that music is going to be listened to, that we should do it in a way that enhances our avodah. It's still arguable if it's halachically permissible to listen to live music in the absence of the beit hamikdash. It's also arguable whether concerts are not "frivolous activities", even if the music is vaguely based on pesukim or Chazal aphorism. It certainly makes concert-goers feel better about themselves, but at the end of the day, in my opinion, many of these concerts look, smell, and sound like secular concerts and it's all merely an attempt to internalize secular values while paying lip service to the notion that we are doing it in a kosher way. In my opinion.

replace the bolded parts of the sentence with pretty much anything and that summarizes 75% of your comments on this site.

What KR said. Like duh, it's a charedi concert in honor of the 1967 war! Ridiculous.

I wonder what the turn out will nevertheless be.

Melech, i hear your point, but "it's all merely an attempt to internalize secular values while paying lip service to the notion that we are doing it in a kosher way" can really be applied to anything under the sun, if we choose to. btw, what's up with bashing Beetles in that link - i didn't understand it? is it connected to public concerts? were beetles the first ones to make them?

Moshi, they said 10,000 people bought the tickets, in spite of teh concert's reasons. i think it'll be interesting to see if the concert will happen despite the ban (i can't imagine it will)

True. But, do you disagree? This whole thing sounds funny to me.

What's a secular value? That there's more to life than learning? Chas v'shalom a person should enjoy themselves once in a while. Forget the Taliban, the OPS is trying to turn us into 17th century Puritans.

The Beatles were prominent in the the sexual revolution of the 1960s. Treif and assur. *does a finger wiggle*

Indeed. Now that I have my OPS meter re-calibrated, I can comment that indeed it's all about picking and choosing which halachot are inconvenient enough to be ignored, and which only the "other" camp within the spectrum of Orthodoxy is ignoring so it's a sign of religious degeneracy.

I would go if I was there.

What I find amusing is that MBD and Shwecky and Lipa all played at a radical Meschichist Chabad gathering in Bloomfield Stadium a few months back and there was no protest whatsoever (in fact many of those in attendence were slightly less than chassidic bochurim from Bnai Brak who are not exactly Chabad symphathizers).

I guess a unified Jerusalem (and access to the Kosel, Kever Rochel, Chevron and other holy sites) is more offensive to the OPS than blatant Chabad Messinaism.....

i'll answer cause you quoted me (don't understand why though). i said that i hear his point cause i can see if i try hard enough how those big public concerts can be viewed as borrowed from non-jews. i don't think it has anything to do with nothing but the learning here. and in my post i questioned that quote of Melech's, cause i, too, don't agree with it.



how were they involved in the revolution? (boy, do i feel ignorant...)



i don't get it, i thought you were serious in that quote.

OT - was this issued now/few days ago or weeks ago? is it soemthing that will be in the papers this week?

I disagree.

You think it's normal to go to a social event (which is what a concert is) with your girlfriend or wife and then not enjoy the activity together?

what do you mean when you say "together"?

By being in each other's company. Isn't that why people go out and do things together?

Would you go on a date and do an activity separately from your girlfriend and then meet up later?

I'm not up on bans, but I have seen posters everywhere for the big Miami Boys Choir/ MBD concert in Binyanei HaUma next week. Is that banned too?

The Gemara says wearing pants is forbidden. So let's see a rabbinic ban on pants.
When you get down to it, everything should be forbidden except sitting and learning. And even that has limits.
The net effect of all this is going to be to reduce the level of respect for rabbinic authority even further than it already is.

I seriously doubt that.

Just because goyim invented something fun, doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with it! Sheesh!

Granted. I meant it figuratively, not that I'm implying there's necessarily the same fumes.


Granted. However, Jewish tradition since the destruction of the BHMK has arguably been that music is inappropriate. If the nonJews enjoy an orgy or two, and invented it, it's not inherently wrong because they invented it, but because it goes against our values.
Now you could argue that music has a strong tradition even within Judaism and that there's a reason it has persisted in spite of the talmud and the Codes looking askance upon it. That's the flip side of the argument.

How did you get from concert to orgy?

The F train. http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/submap.htm
Get off at Kings Highway. It's about 3 blocks from there.

Brrrr....

Yeshiva World posted the text:

(OT - Pinchas, i remembered you while reading JP yestreday. a guy was complaining about a new shidduch fad about not calling the girl first but arranging the first date through a shadchan (actually, it was only first and small part of his fad complaint. another, big part was that he makes time in his busy schedule to call a girl and she is unavailable to talk to him (is on another line or just not there). he claims ti's prevalent among 26+ girls) )

Wow!

(Nope it wasn't me!) Sounds like I would get along with this fellow!

The Big Event concert planned for Madison Square Garden March 9 appears to be banned.
In an interview last night on the Zev Brenner show, Sheya Mendlowitz the promoter stated that the issue that caused over 30 rabbonim to ban the concert was the appearance of Lipa Schmeltzer.

Edit: lol. I didn't read it.

There is no need for a heter anymore since one can argue that the halacha has aready changed organically.
If they had put up this fight thirty years ago, it might have been worthwhile.
But it's too late baby now it's too late though we really did try to make it. Something inside has died and I can't hide it I just can't fake it.

The ban.
A pashkevil claiming the ban is a forgery.
A clip from Hamodia verifying the ban.

Overnight, posters placed on lamp-posts have gone up in flatbush.

BTW, Mr. Mendlowitz stated there was to be no intermission during the concert so as to discourage mingling (He said he was trying to do everything correct).
Is this a new minhag for concerts?
Will there be an intermission when the circus performs its special "kosher" show at MSG? The intermission is a big moneymaker.

I must have missed the discussion. In case you did too, YWN reports that Lipa backed down from his MSG concert. Gertner had caved several days earlier.

wow, i can't believe it. i think i just saw a big ad in JP with Lipa's picture (or was it in the week before issue?)
it did reach America, after all

what does it all mean - no more public concerts?

I don't see it as a problem. Not like Jews in America care about the churban anyway.
Boy, I'm in a cynical mood today.

(Plus it's on a motzie shabbos so there is the heter of malava malka.)

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/Genera...;.html#comments



What surprises me is the huge number of comments that say that's Lipa's "repentance" is a kiddush Hashem. To me it looks like it was due to coercion and pressure.