This morning I saw a Chassidish woman breastfeeding on the train. I was shocked, appalled, and disgusted. She and her husband got off like five minutes later and it's not like the kid was screaming or anything. Couldn't she have waited until she found somewhere more private???

Maybe the kid was about to scream, or was hungry. Mothers have intuition like that.

Remember that when a mother hears the baby cry, she releases a hormone that makes her anxious to help the baby.

Obviously it was hungry, but it wasn't like it was a newborn. It could've managed for five or ten more minutes.

I never knew it was disgusting to feed your child

Get over your hangups.
There is NOTHING disgusting about breastfeeding. It's the natural food Hashem created for babies.
A woman has every right to breastfeed in any place she has the right to be.
I'm very happy this mother was taking care of her baby in the best way possible. That's called being a good mother.
Babies can't always wait until they need to eat. They can get a bit fussy and a mother attuned to her baby's cues, and outsiders would never know. She can't wait till who knows how logn to find somewhere "private" because your mind is warped and think of breastfeeding as something disgusting.

Forget disgusting, no one thinks this is untznius? Amazing.

Off the train, you mean?Was this the A train by any chance? Or was it the B, C, or D?

I assumed no skin that shouldn't have been shown was.
No, I don't think it's not tzniusdik, as long as the mother is covered up.
I've nursed many times on planes.

Do you know where her and her husband were headed?
Perhaps, she was about to leak through and this way she is covered, tznius feeding her baby, as opposed to the alternative of leaking all over, even if her baby could've waited another few minutes, maybe she couldn't.


It does make me a bit uncomfortable and while I would consider it under dire circumstances, I usually try to go to bathroom or more private location. (even on a train I would probably take the corner seat, if available, and face back)

While I don't think it's the ideal, I think it's okay if she is fully covered and managing as well as possible.

There's nothing wrong with what she did as long as she was covered up, in my humble opinion.

I don't think it's appropriate; nor is it appropriate (for an adult) to eat or put on makeup on the train.

There are halachic problems with the bathroom, and I have only done it in extreme difficult situations (e.g. I was at a shul a few weeks ago, had no blanket to cover up, and no rooms that were available...)I take the corner seat, latch on facing the window, and with the proper attire, nothing is seen, and there is no halachic problem.Would it be appropriate for the baby to bottle feed on the train?Why in the world is it not appropriate?

So it's okay for kids to put on makeup on the train? Seems a bit arbitrary.

Shame on you .


R.

You're in PUBLIC. People seem to forget that. Eating and primping are private. Who wants to look at that?

And breastfeeding isn't merely eating, and we all know that !!!!!!!

What is it then?

Drinking!

not to mention crass, vulgar, unbecoming and uncouth...

Not I.

And how about clipping your nails on the train? Disgusting!

I take it you've never heard of a restaurant???

As I asked, would you think feeding a baby a bottle on the train is inappropriate? I also think it's inappropriate for a baby to relieve himself on a train, as well as burp.
Too bad, babies are not expected to have manners yet.

But mothers are.....

Again...would you think it's inappropriate for a mother to feed a baby a bottle on the train?
No one dares to answer this. Because sometimes a baby just needs to eat.
So obviously, we don't care about a baby eating on the train.
We are just upset because our own feelings of a woman's body is warped by our society and the woman makes us feel uncomfortable. And to that, again I say, get over it. That's selfish.

What does the OPS have to say about public nursing?

Not only a woman's body, if I went over to the garbage can on the subway and took a dump, I would immediately be arrested...... And the difference is NOT because p00p smells and breast milk doesn't.....
Certain things are meant to be done in private....

Nobody on h.com will admit to representing the OPS.

Possibly. If she's going to burp the baby over her shoulder, the people sitting near her could be in for some trouble.

What is wrong with eating on train (putting on makeup you may have a weak argument for?)


What are they?


Now that's inappropriate because you won't do that even in your house in front of your friends, would you?

Eating and putting on makeup you usually don't care who watches you do these things.

Maybe not, but melech keeps very close tabs on them and usually knows their stance on any given issue, as well as the nefarious scheme behind it.

The only time I was on a train in NY it was so filthy that I didn't even want to touch anything. I can't imagine nursing a baby on one.

Also this morning on the train there was a huge coffee spill all over the floor. If you have food/drinks on the train you risk getting it on other people, on the floor, or other seats.

And it either it smells bad or it smells so good it makes you want to break your diet.

From where do you learn breastfeeding should be done in private?
Milk is clean and not gross or anything of that sort. It's a whole lot cleaner than formula which is filled with milk that came from a cow near to where they give off waste, and lots of gross stuff in the DHA and ARA (don't want to scare anyone; look it up if you are interested).
The milk is clean.

The body part? Well, ads show a LOT more than a nursing mother does. Almost nothing is visible, so that can't be the concern either.

The only problem: is that YOU have a problem because you associate using the body for reasons that society has claimed the body is for. Again, I refer anyone interested to the gemara in brachos (31b? IIRC) where Chana davens to have a baby. Some body parts are meant to be used, and that's a very right thing to do.

I suspect Jewish women throughout the ages nursed while going about their daily lives. We have these complexes nowadays that make us think there is something wrong with NiP.

Well, the assumption is that the person is responsible enough to try to be careful to prevent spills and if a spill does occur to clean it up.

if it were on a bench in a park where you were taking a walk, would it be different?



vulgar?? how so?

but, just btw, i did find it a bit interesting that it was a chassidishe woman, especially because from my observation they are extra careful in this. meaning, i've never seen a chassidishe woman nursing in a park, museum, etc - anywhere public

Be'er Heiteve O.C. 3:2 according to Google.


Rarely the case with breastfeeding, unless there is OMER involved, in which case the mother should seek guidance in how to manage this problem

What if the baby is crying its lungs out, disturbing your reading, would you rather it be fed or go on bothering a carful of tired commuters?

Ha ha ha ha ha! You haven't taken the trains much if you think that's the way it works.

In theory, no. In reality, yes, since presumably it would be easy enough for me to walk away or change my seat. But on a train you don't necessarily have those options.

Exactly. That's at least partly why I was so shocked.

See: it's your feelings of discomfort. Nothing objectively wrong with the mother nursing her baby.
And if the mother didn't nurse her baby, she would have the discomfort of a crying baby and her shame, a feeling of fullness, possible leaking, the discomfort of her baby being hungry,and you would start a thread on h.com that you were shocked the mother did nothing to quiet her baby.
It's a lose-lose situation. At least this way, only one side of discomfort exists, and everything else was fixed.

Yes, and I was feeling it for a reason.

I also feel uncomfortable when I see people picking their noses on the train.

I'm still not sure what it was you were discomforted by.
The feeding? Well, I doubt you would say this about a bottle.
The fact that she is BREASTfeeding? Well, that's how Hashem created us to feed our babies, and she didn't show any skin (as far as I can tell), and we see ads all the time that show a whole lot more and I don't see you starting threads "Victoria's Secret ad on Train". Therefore, you are just sucked into society's sexualization of the breast and can't resolve the reality that that is how women are created. I doubt this is the problem. I don't think you would have started a thread "Afreican-American Breastfeeding on the Train".
The fact that she is chassidish? This is probably the issue. Well, maybe, just maybe, we should stop labeling people and dumping them into molds and realize each individual can make her own choice what the right thing to do is.

You're so right. In frumkeit the breast is not sexual at all which is why we are allowed to walk around topless.

We are not allowed to walk around sleeveless either.
There are parts we don't show, but that doesn't mean they don't have other functions.
Our upper arm is used to lift things. Maybe we shouldn't lift things in public?
As long as she was covered, and nothing was showing that shouldn't have been, it's the same thing.

actually there is one super-chassidish woman in the community whose name I didn't know until recently and everyone knows who she is because she always has a baby in her sling and basically feeds her anywhere, within reason (such as woman's shiur)


No, it's been a long time since I've been on a train in NY

(not to mention i never saw chassidishe women with babies in slings) i should have noted i was talking about chassidishe ladies of NYC.

this is not chassidishe/non-chassidishe/slings/breastfeeding in public/non-breastfeeding in public/anything else bashing.

I'm not sure the gemara agrees with you. see gitten 89a.

אכלה בשוק גירגרה בשוק הניקה בשוק בכולן ר"מ אומר תצא ר"ע אומר משישאו ויתנו בה מוזרות בלבנה

a woman that breast feeds in public according to R' Meir gets a get and according to R' akiva as soon as the town yentas start talking about it she gets a get.

This whole thing is ridiculous. It's absurd to suggest that in our society a woman should not be able to breastfeed in public, provided she makes a reasonable effort to do so modestly. Walk down any street in Manhattan on a summer day and many of the females are dressed far less modestly than a breastfeeding mother.

That's the point, there IS NO MODEST way to breastfeed in public. The etzem act is immodest.... Now it can be done MORE modestly or less modestly but doing it at all is already well within the immodest category.

everyone knows what your doing under there. Thats why i think its unzinus. All I know is in my family, no one would even DARE to nurse in public.



I think anywhere in public is wrong.



Wow.