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Arizona
We, B'H, found an amazing babysitter to sit on the baby while I'm at work. However, she insists on being paid only in cash. However, we were hoping to be able to deduct childcare expenses on our taxes (since it's what allows me to go to work). Is there anyway to still deduct the expenses if we pay her in cash?
Psychodad
QUOTE(Arizona @ Oct 9 2007, 08:11 PM) *
We, B'H, found an amazing babysitter to sit on the baby while I'm at work. However, she insists on being paid only in cash. However, we were hoping to be able to deduct childcare expenses on our taxes (since it's what allows me to go to work). Is there anyway to still deduct the expenses if we pay her in cash?

as long as the person has a tax identification number (meaning you are basically forcing her to claim the income on her own tax return - which she might not like if she is insisting on cash only)
Arizona
QUOTE(Psychodad @ Oct 9 2007, 05:14 PM) *
as long as the person has a tax identification number (meaning you are basically forcing her to claim the income on her own tax return - which she might not like if she is insisting on cash only)



Is that like a social security number?

I'm not sure why she's insisting on cash. It could be that she doesn't trust banks or want to deal with them and so uses only cash. Or she could be avoiding taxes. However, it's not like we're paying her enough that she'd actually owe taxes.
Psychodad
tax identification number in the case of an individual is their soc. sec. number. Most likely she doesn't want to pay taxes.
It would be easier for you if she were an illegal alien. Then you have a valid reason not to provide a ssn.
Arizona
QUOTE(Psychodad @ Oct 9 2007, 05:23 PM) *
tax identification number in the case of an individual is their soc. sec. number. Most likely she doesn't want to pay taxes.
It would be easier for you if she were an illegal alien. Then you have a valid reason not to provide a ssn.



Hmm. I'm pretty sure she's legal. If she weren't then I could pay the deduction and just say "I paid N dollars to an illegal alien to watch my kid" and I'd get the deduction?
Psychodad
QUOTE(Arizona @ Oct 9 2007, 08:26 PM) *
Hmm. I'm pretty sure she's legal. If she weren't then I could pay the deduction and just say "I paid N dollars to an illegal alien to watch my kid" and I'd get the deduction?

yep
Arizona
QUOTE(Psychodad @ Oct 9 2007, 05:26 PM) *
yep



That's such an incentive to hire an illegal alien, it's not even funny.

It's such a shame she was upfront about her status.
Psychodad
If you still want to claim the credit w/o giving the babysitters ssn:

QUOTE(irs.gov)
My babysitter refused to provide me with her social security number. Can I still claim what I paid for child care on my taxes while I worked? If so, how?

Yes, assuming that you already meet the other requirements to claim the child care credit, but are missing the required ID number of the provider, you can still claim the credit by demonstrating "due diligence" in attempting to secure the needed information.

When the care provider refuses to give the identifying information, the taxpayer can still claim the credit and is instructed to provide whatever information is available about the provider (such as name and address) on the form used to claim the credit Form 2441 (PDF), Child and Dependent Care Expenses, or Form 1040A, Schedule 2 (PDF), Child and Dependent Care Expenses for Form 1040A Filers). The taxpayer should write "see page 2" in the columns calling for the missing information. He/she would write at the bottom of page 2 that the provider refused to give the requested information. This statement will show that the taxpayer used due diligence in trying to secure and furnish the necessary information.
Psychodad
Although if you did this, I'm not sure she's want to be your babysitter much longer after April.

ETA: It's a tradeoff, I have the same issue but if you're getting a deal and she's a good worker your better off than having to pay $X more to send your kid to a licensed daycare.
Arizona
QUOTE(Psychodad @ Oct 9 2007, 05:34 PM) *
Although if you did this, I'm not sure she's want to be your babysitter much longer after April.

ETA: It's a tradeoff, I have the same issue but if you're getting a deal and she's a good worker your better off than having to pay $X more to send your kid to a licensed daycare.



Yeah. These are good points. I just figured that I'd ask because it doesn't hurt.

[She's actually more expensive than the daycares I looked into but it's a whole different level as far as quality of care so she's still worth it.]
Psychodad
QUOTE(Arizona @ Oct 9 2007, 08:40 PM) *
Yeah. These are good points. I just figured that I'd ask because it doesn't hurt.

[She's actually more expensive than the daycares I looked into but it's a whole different level as far as quality of care so she's still worth it.]

It can't hurt to ask her if she minds if you report the payment to the IRS for the childcare deduction. Worst she can say is no.
Arizona
QUOTE(Psychodad @ Oct 9 2007, 05:43 PM) *
It can't hurt to ask her if she minds if you report the payment to the IRS for the childcare deduction. Worst she can say is no.



True. I think I'll wait a bit, though. Maybe get her a nice hanuka gift and then ask in January.

Red Hare
I was kicked out of a playgroup once because of that...I was handed my cash, my baby, and said goodbye to. The kids like the playgroup but I found another one..and I was desperate for the tax write off!!!!!
Arizona
QUOTE(Red Hare @ Oct 9 2007, 06:12 PM) *
I was kicked out of a playgroup once because of that...I was handed my cash, my baby, and said goodbye to. The kids like the playgroup but I found another one..and I was desperate for the tax write off!!!!!



You were kicked out for asking or for insisting?
Elana
QUOTE(Arizona @ Oct 9 2007, 08:21 PM) *
I'm not sure why she's insisting on cash.

However, it's not like we're paying her enough that she'd actually owe taxes.


of course, it's to avoid paying taxes.

why wouldn't she owe taxes? it's her income from self-employment, she didn't pay taxes on it yet.

QUOTE(Psychodad @ Oct 9 2007, 08:34 PM) *
Although if you did this, I'm not sure she's want to be your babysitter much longer after April.


why? cause IRS would contact her about reporting it (given that they have her name and address)?

btw, i was told that you could deduct only the max of $3,000 for day care a year, no matter the real cost...
Arizona
QUOTE(Elana @ Oct 9 2007, 08:04 PM) *
of course, it's to avoid paying taxes.

why wouldn't she owe taxes? it's her income from self-employment, she didn't pay taxes on it yet.
why? cause IRS would contact her about reporting it (given that they have her name and address)?


The amount that we're paying her doesn't put her above the poverty line.

QUOTE(Elana @ Oct 9 2007, 08:04 PM) *
btw, i was told that you could deduct only the max of $3,000 for day care a year, no matter the real cost...


Hmm. Perhaps, I could ask her to report $3,000 which would definitely not be taxable.
Elana
if she is on any kind of public assistance/benefits (welfare, SSI, food stamps, medicaid, sect.8), she won't do that.

btw, double-check the $3000 thing
Arizona
QUOTE(Elana @ Oct 9 2007, 08:25 PM) *
if she is on any kind of public assistance/benefits (welfare, SSI, food stamps, medicaid, sect.8), she won't do that.

btw, double-check the $3000 thing


Why not?
Elana
it could make her ineligible for some benefits? or up her rent share, if it's sect.8, or lower her FS amount
Arizona
QUOTE(Elana @ Oct 9 2007, 08:44 PM) *
it could make her ineligible for some benefits? or up her rent share, if it's sect.8, or lower her FS amount



Interesting. I didn't know this.
Elana
well, they are all income-based, so that makes sense
Arizona
QUOTE(Elana @ Oct 9 2007, 08:49 PM) *
well, they are all income-based, so that makes sense



Yes, it does (once you point it out.)

Sigh, that deduction sure would have been nice.
Elana
i hear you - was in your boat for a while. but you can't compare the care of a one-on-one babysitter and a daycare.
Kalashnikover_Rebbe
QUOTE(Arizona @ Oct 10 2007, 05:54 AM) *
Sigh, that deduction sure would have been nice.

Yes I'm SURE it would have, but you have to realize that for all intents and purposes you ALREADY got the deduction, because you would have surely had to pay more to hire any "on the books" babysitter.

So since you paid the cash rate, you already got the discount which I surmise will come out to a LOT more than the difference would be in cost to get receipts and pay her on the books...
Arizona
QUOTE(Elana @ Oct 9 2007, 08:57 PM) *
i hear you - was in your boat for a while. but you can't compare the care of a one-on-one babysitter and a daycare.



Yes. I know. She really is great, too. This morning she met me at my door (I take him to her apt) with his blanket that we'd left in her living room yesterday and a fresh bottle already made up.

[Pretty soon this will lead to a complex about how the babysitter does a better job than I do.]
Elana
do not let this to become your complex! no one can substitute a mother (even if that mother is always asking the babysitter and the friends for advice or admits that her babysitter had much more energy to run around the playground than herself - lol)
Arizona
QUOTE(Elana @ Oct 10 2007, 01:45 PM) *
do not let this to become your complex! no one can substitute a mother (even if that mother is always asking the babysitter and the friends for advice or admits that her babysitter had much more energy to run around the playground than herself - lol)


LOL

Thanks. It was just a really hard night last night. Lots of crying (baby, me, I think Hubby was close.) It was frustrating to see him beaming happily at the babysitter and reaching out his little arms.
Elana
look at the bright side - it's much better than him crying uncontrollably and you not able to leave the scene wink.gif

my daughter didn't even bother to say "bye" to me when i was leaving for work and was waiting for the babysitter to come at the front door, and was running to her as she opened the door. BUT she was running to me when i was coming home, too - although this only started at around 2 y.

it's such a relief to know your child is being taken care of by a caring, loving and a competent person!
FYI
QUOTE(Arizona @ Oct 9 2007, 07:11 PM) *
We, B'H, found an amazing babysitter to sit on the baby while I'm at work. However, she insists on being paid only in cash. However, we were hoping to be able to deduct childcare expenses on our taxes (since it's what allows me to go to work). Is there anyway to still deduct the expenses if we pay her in cash?

My understanding is if she asks for cash, don't ask her if she pays taxes, assume she doesn't. I once paid a babysitter in cash who said to me "you can write me a check, I report all my income" That was nice smile.gif...but coming from a babysitter that was cheaper was also hard, you lose some, you win some.

Now, my son is in school and I pay a pretty penny to have a babysitter in my home, so I plan on reporting every penny (and I pay her by check so I assume she realizes that)

QUOTE(Arizona @ Oct 10 2007, 03:48 PM) *
LOL

Thanks. It was just a really hard night last night. Lots of crying (baby, me, I think Hubby was close.) It was frustrating to see him beaming happily at the babysitter and reaching out his little arms.

Yes. I've had those times, but G-d laughs now when my daughter won't let go of me when babysitter comes. (Within 5 minutes, she's done crying, but I never expected that kids REALLY have separation anxiety since my son never had it)



ANd on this topic I would follow psycho's advice - while you COULD report it without ID #, you run the risk of losing a sitter. IF they decide to audit you and find out who your sitter is, etc. etc. she could get in trouble which she doesn't want.
Arizona
QUOTE(Elana @ Oct 10 2007, 01:52 PM) *
look at the bright side - it's much better than him crying uncontrollably and you not able to leave the scene wink.gif

my daughter didn't even bother to say "bye" to me when i was leaving for work and was waiting for the babysitter to come at the front door, and was running to her as she opened the door. BUT she was running to me when i was coming home, too - although this only started at around 2 y.

it's such a relief to know your child is being taken care of by a caring, loving and a competent person!


True true.

QUOTE(FYI @ Oct 10 2007, 02:07 PM) *
My understanding is if she asks for cash, don't ask her if she pays taxes, assume she doesn't. I once paid a babysitter in cash who said to me "you can write me a check, I report all my income" That was nice smile.gif...but coming from a babysitter that was cheaper was also hard, you lose some, you win some.

Now, my son is in school and I pay a pretty penny to have a babysitter in my home, so I plan on reporting every penny (and I pay her by check so I assume she realizes that)
Yes. I've had those times, but G-d laughs now when my daughter won't let go of me when babysitter comes. (Within 5 minutes, she's done crying, but I never expected that kids REALLY have separation anxiety since my son never had it)
ANd on this topic I would follow psycho's advice - while you COULD report it without ID #, you run the risk of losing a sitter. IF they decide to audit you and find out who your sitter is, etc. etc. she could get in trouble which she doesn't want.


Yeah, we're not going to report it. She's too valuable. I may still ask but we'll see.
Red Hare
Yes, it was because of city "benefits".
brianna
QUOTE(Arizona @ Oct 9 2007, 08:11 PM) *
We, B'H, found an amazing babysitter to sit on the baby while I'm at work. However, she insists on being paid only in cash. However, we were hoping to be able to deduct childcare expenses on our taxes (since it's what allows me to go to work). Is there anyway to still deduct the expenses if we pay her in cash?

Just put it out of your head. You already get your deduction by not having to pay a taxed rate which would be higher.

QUOTE(Psychodad @ Oct 9 2007, 08:23 PM) *
Most likely she doesn't want to pay taxes.

Well yeah.

I babysit for two families on a steady basis - one night a week each. If either dared to report me to the IRS, not only would I dump them I'd blacklist them which would make sure they wouldn't be able to find a babysitter within 10 miles for at least a full year. And I'm not kidding.
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