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lyric
DH and I are going to be "interrogated" by a Moshav committee shortly about a plot of land we are thinking of buying there. How do you say "my wife has totally fallen in love with this"? It's the "fallen in love" bit we aren't sure of, we know how to say most other things.
greentiger
QUOTE(lyric @ Nov 4 2007, 12:26 PM) *
DH and I are going to be "interrogated" by a Moshav committee shortly about a plot of land we are thinking of buying there. How do you say "my wife has totally fallen in love with this"? It's the "fallen in love" bit we aren't sure of, we know how to say most other things.

התאהבה

Or I can tell you the vort about how there is no such word in lashon hakodesh becuase this is a totally non jewish concept... laugh.gif
Pinchas
QUOTE(greentiger @ Nov 4 2007, 11:13 AM) *
התאהבה

Or I can tell you the vort about how there is no such word in lashon hakodesh becuase this is a totally non jewish concept... laugh.gif


No it's not. Rivkah did it! She fell, in love.
dude
QUOTE(greentiger @ Nov 4 2007, 04:13 AM) *
התאהבה

Or I can tell you the vort about how there is no such word in lashon hakodesh becuase this is a totally non jewish concept... laugh.gif

Another word that has a similar meaning is 'muksemet' ('muksam' in the masc. form) which means 'charmed'. As in, 'ishti, legamri muksemet mi'hashetach hazeh. Efshar lomar she'hee dei hitahavah bo / hitlahavah mimenu.'

'hitlahavah' means 'has become passsionate about' or something similar depending on the context.
greentiger
QUOTE(Pinchas @ Nov 4 2007, 01:32 PM) *
No it's not. Rivkah did it! She fell, in love.

But of course she didn't, becuase there is no such concept. rolleyes.gif wink.gif
lyric
QUOTE(dude @ Nov 4 2007, 10:56 AM) *
Another word that has a similar meaning is 'muksemet' ('muksam' in the masc. form) which means 'charmed'. As in, 'ishti, legamri muksemet mi'hashetach hazeh. Efshar lomar she'hee dei hitahavah bo / hitlahavah mimenu.'

'hitlahavah' means 'has become passsionate about' or something similar depending on the context.



Brilliant, thanks to everyone for their answer.
Pinchas
QUOTE(greentiger @ Nov 4 2007, 01:29 PM) *
But of course she didn't, becuase there is no such concept. rolleyes.gif wink.gif


And Rivka raised her eyes and saw Yitzchak, and she fell from the camel.
lyric
QUOTE(Pinchas @ Nov 4 2007, 07:12 PM) *
And Rivka raised her eyes and saw Yitzchak, and she fell from the camel.


One explanation is that Yitzchak actually died (and was resurrected) at the Akeidoh, so he was now living his life as a person in the World to Come. In that world we are all heads down (the most important part of us attached to the ground) so Yitzchak was actually upside down when Rivka first saw him, necessitating her to look at him from a weird angle, which made her fall off the camel.
Goldfish
QUOTE(lyric @ Nov 4 2007, 04:16 PM) *
One explanation is that Yitzchak actually died (and was resurrected) at the Akeidoh, so he was now living his life as a person in the World to Come. In that world we are all heads down (the most important part of us attached to the ground) so Yitzchak was actually upside down when Rivka first saw him, necessitating her to look at him from a weird angle, which made her fall off the camel.

Who said this?
lyric
QUOTE(Goldfish @ Nov 4 2007, 09:33 PM) *
Who said this?


My husband says either the Zohar or a Medrash.
melech
QUOTE(lyric @ Nov 4 2007, 05:30 PM) *
My husband says either the Zohar or a Medrash.

Go to The Last Trial on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Trial-Legends-S...4/dp/187904529X

and then click "Look inside the book" on the left.
then click the arrows to advance to page 6

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/187904529X...414#reader-link

The source is there.

What's going on is that the assumption of many, many meforshim, based on Chazal (eg. Pirkei Derabbi Eliezer, and many others) was that Yitchak was actually sacrificed on Har Hamoriyah. This was the prevalent opinion for much of history prior to the 12th century or so. The prevalent view changed for a number of reasons, mostly due to the Crusades and because of Catholic polemics.
Pinchas
QUOTE(melech @ Nov 5 2007, 12:49 AM) *
Go to The Last Trial on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Trial-Legends-S...4/dp/187904529X

and then click "Look inside the book" on the left.
then click the arrows to advance to page 6

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/187904529X...414#reader-link

The source is there.

What's going on is that the assumption of many, many meforshim, based on Chazal (eg. Pirkei Derabbi Eliezer, and many others) was that Yitchak was actually sacrificed on Har Hamoriyah. This was the prevalent opinion for much of history prior to the 12th century or so. The prevalent view changed for a number of reasons, mostly due to the Crusades and because of Catholic polemics.


Wow!
sle123
QUOTE(lyric @ Nov 4 2007, 05:16 PM) *
One explanation is that Yitzchak actually died (and was resurrected) at the Akeidoh, so he was now living his life as a person in the World to Come. In that world we are all heads down (the most important part of us attached to the ground) so Yitzchak was actually upside down when Rivka first saw him, necessitating her to look at him from a weird angle, which made her fall off the camel.

I actually heard a similar shiur earlier today by R'Wallerstein; iirc, he quotes R'Chaim Vital. But he said that Yitzchak was "shechted" (only one of the pipes were cut), and he had a female neshama, which went up to heaven, and that neshama was then placed into Rivka's body (since Rivka was born that day.)
Goldfish
QUOTE(melech @ Nov 4 2007, 05:49 PM) *
Go to The Last Trial on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Trial-Legends-S...4/dp/187904529X
The source is there.

Are we really expected to believe this literally? It seems a bit inconvenient to walk around on your head (hands?).

QUOTE
What's going on is that the assumption of many, many meforshim, based on Chazal (eg. Pirkei Derabbi Eliezer, and many others) was that Yitchak was actually sacrificed on Har Hamoriyah. This was the prevalent opinion for much of history prior to the 12th century or so. The prevalent view changed for a number of reasons, mostly due to the Crusades and because of Catholic polemics.

Why would it have changed because of the Crusades/Catholic polemics?
existwhere?
QUOTE(sle123 @ Nov 4 2007, 06:01 PM) *
I actually heard a similar shiur earlier today by R'Wallerstein; iirc, he quotes R'Chaim Vital. But he said that Yitzchak was "shechted" (only one of the pipes were cut), and he had a female neshama, which went up to heaven, and that neshama was then placed into Rivka's body (since Rivka was born that day.)

http://www.torahanytime.com/recent_lectures.html
Will be available there for Chayei Sara 5768 in a few days.
melech
QUOTE(Goldfish @ Nov 4 2007, 06:11 PM) *
Are we really expected to believe this literally? It seems a bit inconvenient to walk around on your head (hands?).

1. It's a very late "midrash", without a source in divrei Chazal as far as I know.
2. Since when are midrashim all literal as opposed to imparting a didactic lesson?
3. He was dead, a ghost, or at least resurrected. That doesn't bother you but walking upside does?

QUOTE
Why would it have changed because of the Crusades/Catholic polemics?

I don't understand the complete argument, but it has to do with the place of the concept of resurrected biblical figures with analogies of course to the Catholic false messiah who was supposedly killed and then resurrected. Keep in mind that the Binding of Isaac plays a key role in Catholic theology and that Jewish views of it will necessarily be influenced by the prevailing Catholic views, as well as being influenced by the concept of martydom, a concept that changed dramatically during the Crusades. [I heard that the Friedike Cardinal of the archdiocese of Toronto had nothing on his desk except for a statue of the Binding of Isaac]. But it also explains, for example, why the Ashkenaz poskim [the source above, as indicated by the footnote, was the Minchat Yehudah, which was written by R. Yehuda ben Eliezer, in 1313 CE] were much more accepting of the concept of a martyred and resurrected Isaac than were the Sephardi commentators such as Ibn Ezra who said any such belief that Yitchaka's ashes are on har hamoriah is heresy.
Goldfish
QUOTE(melech @ Nov 5 2007, 09:56 AM) *
3. He was dead, a ghost, or at least resurrected. That doesn't bother you but walking upside does?

You could argue that someone who got CPR was resurrected from the dead, so to me it doesn't seem so odd.

QUOTE
I don't understand the complete argument, but it has to do with the place of the concept of resurrected biblical figures with analogies of course to the Catholic false messiah who was supposedly killed and then resurrected. Keep in mind that the Binding of Isaac plays a key role in Catholic theology

I never heard that, thanks.
melech
QUOTE(melech @ Nov 5 2007, 09:56 AM) *
1. It's a very late "midrash", without a source in divrei Chazal as far as I know.
2. Since when are midrashim all literal as opposed to imparting a didactic lesson?
3. He was dead, a ghost, or at least resurrected. That doesn't bother you but walking upside does?
I don't understand the complete argument, but it has to do with the place of the concept of resurrected biblical figures with analogies of course to the Catholic false messiah who was supposedly killed and then resurrected. Keep in mind that the Binding of Isaac plays a key role in Catholic theology and that Jewish views of it will necessarily be influenced by the prevailing Catholic views, as well as being influenced by the concept of martydom, a concept that changed dramatically during the Crusades. [I heard that the Friedike Cardinal of the archdiocese of Toronto had nothing on his desk except for a statue of the Binding of Isaac]. But it also explains, for example, why the Ashkenaz poskim [the source above, as indicated by the footnote, was the Minchat Yehudah, which was written by R. Yehuda ben Eliezer, in 1313 CE] were much more accepting of the concept of a martyred and resurrected Isaac than were the Sephardi commentators such as Ibn Ezra who said any such belief that Yitchaka's ashes are on har hamoriah is heresy.


Jack Bieler - Tracing Trends in Orthodoxy (review)
from yutorah.org

http://www.yutorah.org/_shiurim/9%2E%20Jac...review%29%2Epdf
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