How do you keep your tallit from falling off your shoulders and down on your arms during davening? I've seen some people with makeshift things like something with two rings connected by a bar and the front corners of the tallit are fed through the loops and this keeps the tallit from falling. Have you seen anything like that? How do you keep your tallit in place? Or are you constantly re-adjusted all through davening?

I've seen people wear fancy tallit clips. I think I might buy me some of those.

I wrap mine around me like a giant shawl or cloak, as was done in Old Sepharad and the Maghreb. Doesn't fall down that way

Tuck it into your gartel of course

Doesn't help me. My belt is under my jacket. I don't wear a separate belt around the outside of my jacket.

I have the most gorgeous matching brooch that keeps my tallit in place. Actually I think I need to share the details in fashion and style.

Is it a single brooch, or is it two of them, one for each side to connect the tallit to your outfit? And is it ok to use on shabbat as well? And is the brooch properly attractive and not attracting?

Constantly readjusting. I think the way Lubavitchers do it (roll it up) is the best way to prevent unraveling.

As a kid I had a tallis clip. But as an adult, you just have to accept that a falling tallis is part of davening.

http://www.zionjudaica.com/Assorted_Tallit_Clips-75.asp

why not use it as an adult? i've seen people with them.

What's wrong with talles being on your hands ?

This is so funny because I was just thinking about this myself. And what about atarot? What are they for? How come some people have them and some people don't?

Atarot allow one to always keep the orientation of the tallit, the way the kerashim in the mishkan were always oriented the same way. That said, some, like the Ari, had issues with atarot.

What?

Well, because the Ar"i saw no need not to change the orientation of the tallit.
The Aruch Hashulchan 8:10 cites the Ar"i, and goes on to say that silver atarot are particularly inappropriate becasue it makes it seem as if the ikkar part of the tallit is the part that goes on the head, when in fact the ikkar part of the tallit is the part that's on one's back, and therefore if you're going to put a silver thing anywhere, it should be in the middle of the tallit (the part that covers the back) and not along the edge that covers the head.

Some better people wear an atara on the middle as well.

My husband says the atara helps keep it in place.

While we are on the topic, do Any Torontonians know of a place that will clean a tallis same day (my husband only has one) that has an atara and will also add the ribbon down the middle where it is starting to wear along the fold line?

This one is quite nice...
Click to view attachment

I'm not into wearing a tallis or anything but that brooch is quite cool in a quirky, kitch kind of way. I wonder if I bought that and wore it on a suit jacket how people would respond...

You know I didn't even realize when I posted that this thread IS in fashion and style. I was sure it was in Jewish Fundamentals or Society or something.

Anyway I want to post pics of my tallit and get advice about buying a new one. Maybe I'll start a new thread.

Are you thinking something like this:
Click to view attachment

...or something like this
Click to view attachment

...actually I kind of like it. It would make a nice tichel if it didn't have the atarah and tzitzis...

Splendid Cleaners in the Sobey's Plaze (Spring Farm), 441 Clark

When you posted about the brooch to keep your tallit in place, to be honest, I thought you were joking. My impression from previous posts of yours is that you are Lubavitch or at least Lubavitch-friendly. I'm surprised you wear a tallit. Do you get comments when you're at Chabad shuls, or are your friends supportive? Or do you just wear it when davening at home? Is that why so many Rightists avoid davening in shul and use the excuse of taking care of the kids when really it's so they can express themselves religiously without the OPS pilloring them? When did you start wearing a tallit? Do you wear the tallit over your head? Does that mess up you sheitel? Will you encourage your daughters in this true way of avodah? While I don't personally think women should wear talliyot, different strokes for different folks and I applaud your openness and honesty.

Despite what melech said the real reason is because some people have nicer (or richer but usually nicer has more to do with it) father-in-laws than others. Also some people's ataros will have 4 rows, some 5 rows, and some 6 rows - again you can tell a lot about the guys father-in-law based on that.

Same here. I think it takes courage to disclose something like that, and, hey, if that's your way of serving Hashem it's all good.

I agree as well and think it's great that you mentioned it. As you know I'm Conservative and I myself don't wear one, although I have seen some quite beautiful ones in the last few years.

If you're seriously interested in looking for a new tallit, my niece got a really beautiful organza one for her Bat Mitzvah last spring from the following site and they have a pretty extensive selection of tallitot for women. I personally like many of the organza ones.

http://www.judaicaworldwide.com/judaica.as...&sub_id=176

Back to the original topic though, the site I linked above also seems to have a great selection of tallit clips (see menu on left side of page).

I have seen one guy use velcro to keep it in place.
He attaches a piece by the shoulder and the corresponding piece at the end that always slides off

Yes. You can. There is a direct correlation between pretentiousness and silver in talleisim.

They are definitely very nice. Seriously, if it weren't for the tzitis and atarah some of those would make for very elegant shawls...

You mean she wasn't???

I have said in the past how I think Chabad Lubavitch is very close to Modern Orthodoxy. I guess I didn't realize how far to the Left of MO it really is. But I think we as an online community should support Jeanette in her religious choices. It's not for us to judge. We don't know all the details. And I shouldn't be seeing her personal actions as a reflection on Chabad Lubavitch as a whole, I suppose.

Nah.
Modern day Chabad Lubavitch looks MO when compared to chassidus'n like Satmar but it's certainly not Modern Orthodox. But then again, Chabad is so much more than a point in a continuum of hashkafos...

btw, I'm not Chabad. (pro-Chabad yes, but not Chabad)

Uhhh Yeah I suppose that might be a good policy...

As for the reisha, this is what happens when a flock loses its shepherd...
And it was expressed nicely on another thread:

Like this, you mean?

I just drape mine over the arms and hands, as was done in Old Ashkenas and the way Belzer chassidim do nowadays. Doesn't fall down that way, either

Are you effing serious ?

No, I did not seriously think that Jeanette wears one, I was playing along.

DH has this (although the stain-resistance is eh..)..it comes in sefardi white-on-white too..

That is idiotic. My father in law actually sells them, and offhandedly handed me the catalog, but I didn't want one. Mostly because they don't maske anti-perspirant for foreheads.

Sinilar topic: Can someone write a comprehensive list of rules for when to put the tallis over your head? It seems like everyone always knows except me.

(That's why Lubavitchers have mashpia's and mentors).


It's a good question and we all see people with all sorts of different practices even in one shul [minhag hamakom notwithstanding since minhag hamakom has no relevance to anyone other than that girls have to wear socks].

First of all, as far as I understand, there's a range of opinions. Take the Mishnah Berurah for example. He cites the Ba'ch that it's laudable to cover one's head from the beginning of davening till the end. Wonderful. That makes it laudable but not obligatory, so seemingly one can opt as one sees fit and as one is personally comfortable. But according to the MB is it obligatory at all? Leaving aside the claim that there's an obligation for a double head covering [which I believe there is not, an oblique reference in the Beit Yoseph to OC 8 notwithstanding; I believe it's a chassidic chiddush, but we've discussed this lots of times previously], according to the MB is there any obligation to cover one's head with a tallit? The Shulchan Aruch says it's "nachon", or correct, at the beginning of OC 8, but the context of that statement is davka when donning a tallit right before the berachah in order to fulfill atifah. Arguably, the SA is not speaking of any time after you finish donning the tallit any more than the SA would hold it's laudable to remain with the tallit covering one's mouth as one must [ke-derech ha-yishma'eilim] when one is donning the tallit. In other words, according to the SA, as understood by the MB, it's only laudable according to the SA to cover one's head with a tallit while donning the tallit, since that's clearly the context, and then the MB goes on to say that it's actually laudable to cover one's head throughout tefillah. But obligatory? No way.
A nafka mina would be if one needs to say a new berachah on the tallit, a second time. According to the above understanding, one could say a berachah, and don the tallit, without doing the whole atifah thing with covering one's head and covering one's mouth, and so understands some commentators.

So one way of understanding it is that it's laudable to cover one's head when donning the tallit, but not obligatory according to the SA, but it is obviously normative practice to do so. But after that? A range of opinions and practices. As I said above, according to the Bach, it's laudable throughout davening, but certainly not obligatory. In fact, I would argue that there are times when one davka should not. After all, if the reason for covering your head with a tallit is humility [hachna'a], then being the only person doing so in a shul where nobody else is would seem to me, in my opinion, to be attracting, and yuhara, and the opposite of humbling, and the opposite of what one should be trying to accomplish. On the other hand, the flip side of the argument is that if one's personal minhag is to cover one's head throughout tefillah, regardless of what others are doing in shul, one should do so at all times without prejudice.

But what do people actually do? We've all seen people do different things. In my shul, some don't cover their heads at all after they don the tallit, some cover from the beginning of tefillah till the end, some cover just for the amidah or just when they get an aliyah, a range of personal practices. But what I observe to be the most common practice in my shul is to cover one's head from Barechu till after the amidah. What's the source for this and why do people do that? People probably do it because they see others doing it. But what's the source? I have no idea. But it seems to me to be consistent with one of the opinions in Mesechet Sofrim. Contrary to the rhetoric of the OPS, it's not so clear that there is any obligation to cover one's head with a kippah at all times, but there is a clear obligation, sourced in one of two opinions in mesechet sofrim, to cover one's head for shema and the amidah. So in my opinion, covering one's head with a tallit during shema and the amida [ie from barechu] is consistent with that opinion in mesechet sofrim, if one considers a kippah to be an inadequate covering.

Very good idea. I'm glad someone gets it. (and melech, thank you for your support. How sweet.)

Now, can you help me choose between

and

I think I would prefer the top picture but both are quite nice.

The first one is so pretty. I have a skirt that's a bit similar.

I don't like the color of the matching yarmulke, though. It seems too frivolous.