Planning on moving to Israel in the near future. One thing I am wondering about is what kind of variety Israel offers in terms of goods?

Here in the UK I can buy just about anything I want (or need) and within the EU I can buy stuff without paying import tax.

Since Israel is pretty isolated and so many things are imported, how easy is it to buy stuff like pushchairs, kids toys and furniture and how much more expensive is it than the UK or USA? Does Israel produce any good quality goods that actually look nice? Also, how easy have you found it to get stuff ordered from abroad e.g. do most overseas websites ship to Israel and what are import taxes like when buying from outside Israel? (I'm thinking Amazon booksellers, ebay etc).

Also, is there any kind of Israeli alternative to ebay or are Israelis not really into buying used stuff?

Thanks.

dinodski,

Have you actually ever been to Israel?

That's what I was wondering.

Israel's got everything that every other country has. Even an Ikea.

Yeah.. well almost. I heard in a few years we will get indoor plumbing. I can't wait! There's always a long line in front of the outhouse...

WTH is a pushchair???

Oh no, they don't have any of those in Israel. There aren't enough babies to make it economically viable

Everyone should note that these are legitimate questions (which I, personally, cannot answer):

Yes, I have been to Israel (I even got married there). I saw quite a lot of stuff in the malls but I definitely didn't think the variety was that great.

In Jerusalem (where my husband is from and where we would probably live) I found that lots of hte goods cater towards the orthodox market and since we are secular, not really our cup of tea.

I know there is an Ikea but what about things like antique furniture and stuff that is a bit more unusual? Is Tel Aviv a good place to find such things or does Jerusalem have an antiques market?

A pushchair is English for a pram for a toddler (i.e. not lying flat). I suppose in the US you would call it a stroller?

I figure that the Israeli market is much smaller than that of the USA or Europe so it makes sense that there is less choice, I just wanted to find out if there are specialist stores within Israel where you can buy things, especially imported goods at good prices as per my original message.

The answer is yes, you could find just about anything you can find abroad in Israel. There is an entire furniture district in Tel Aviv and there are also furniture stores scattered around Jerusalem.

Products that are imported do cost more - naturally. Though many are competitive. You have to remember the average Israeli is earning a lot less that your average British or American.

I suggest you take a pilot trip and - go shopping. Go to stores and malls and see what things cost.

I don't find any limitation on variety.

Oh, one more consideration. Items imported from China (if you could think of any) are often even cheaper or the same as they cost in the U.S. as shipping costs from China to Israel are less then China to the U.S...

It is certainly true that the variety is MUCH less in Israel than the US (and I presume England), and often the prices are higher and the quality lower, but you can get just about everything you need (except decent cheese), and people often "smuggle things in" when they travel overseas...
In any event, this is certainly not a good reason NOT to live in Israel, it is hardly a 3rd world country and technologically it is quite advanced. But the standard of living is definitely different and takes some time getting used to.

When I got here 10 years ago the variety was MUCH less than it is now and imported food was still rare. Now you can get major American brands in most supermarkets. Things are progressing... And the coolest thing is WD-40 with hebrew on the can!!!

Thank you for your replies, Pinchas, Kalashnikover_Rebbe, Goldfish etc.

I agree KR that not having a variety of goods is not a good reason not to come to Israel. The whole point is that we intend to come to Israel to make our lives there but obviously I want to find out as much as I can about the country and what it offers as I will be moving from a very different environment and one way in which a person can limit the amount to which they are homesick and adjust to a very different culture is by finding out the places that stock goods they know so that hte culture shock is not too great. I have to learn hebrew as it is and adjust to a Meditteranean culture and climate, I want to give myself as much help aclimatising as possible if that makes sense, so that I won't be going home a year later.

You mean back to England.

Erm, yes that's what I meant

Israel has come a long way in this respect and you won't have too much trouble buying commercial products from abroad. (Especially if you plan on living in Tel Aviv or Haifa, as opposed to Jerusalem)

Easier than you think A lot harder than the Hebrew... Be prepared for very rude, aggressive people. 
And be prepared to be called an "Anglo-Saxon". (So much for Pinchus' nitpicking about England and "home")

Israel is not for everyone. See how things pan out. If you need to go back home there's nothing wrong.

My personal advice is live in a westernized city (Tel Aviv, Haifa, Herzlia, Netanya, etc.) Jerusalem will be much more of a culture shock.

Now I'll just nitpick about the spelling of my name, instead.



And yet, one can't go anywhere in Jerusalem with hearing English being spoken...

Telling Freudian slip...

It's not about the language. Jerusalem is a boring, sleepy town where everything shuts down around 5pm, and if Dinodski's not frum, they're not going to have anything in common with the very frum, very right-wing English speakers.

Yes, it's telling me to go to sleep!



True. Unless they live in the southern area of Yerushalayim. Though I would also tell Dinodski to look into Modiin or Kafar Saba/Rananna.

Kfar Saba and Raanana are good chioces for them. I don't know about Modiin.

Many sellers will ship to Israel but being a socialist country, Israel charges all sorts of tariffs.

The problem is that my husband is from Jerusalem and really doesn't like Tel Aviv. I don't mind living in Jerusalem as long as it is in a more secular area (don't want to have haredi kids screaming at me not to drive on shabbat etc). Possibly somewhere like Katamon but in Jerusalem I guess everywhere has ultra-religious folk. I wouldn't really want to live in Modi'in as it sounds really boring and I am a city person so Tel Aviv would be perfect except for hte husband issue and the fact that Tel Aviv is so incredibly humid. Perhaps we will look at somewhere in Gush Dan that is a little bit of a cross between the climate of Jerusalem and the culture of Tel Aviv (if it exists).



That's another thing I am worried about. I don't really want to put up with rude or aggressive people and one thing I did notice about Israelis is how impatient they are and how rude they can be.


Incidentally, we would love to move to the US if Israel doesn't work out but its hard to get into the US unless you have a green card and you can't get one of those unless you have a sponsor etc, so catch-22. Its quite complicated.

The US rocks. Plus your money is worth practically double here. You could always go to Mexico on vacation and come in illegally. It's tacitly allowed now, haven't you heard? Or maybe that's only if you're short, brown and uneducated.

hmm... take your own entertainment. Lots of it.

You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Ooooh. You've scared me now

You're not the only one she scares.

Don't worry. Be Happy.

And for good reason. Israel is one of a handful of countries where the majority of public servants admit to not greeting visitors or answering their greetings, and not offering them a chair. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

dinodski,

Just be aware and expect most unsucessful olim to sound like krum. Israeli might not have manners and public relations down pat - to say the least - but they still are the most caring people in the world. Where else would two total strangers get out of their seat to help a lady get on the back door of a bus with her pushchair? And were else would the lady hand a bill to total strangers to hand up to the driver? And were else would the driver hand the change back to these total strangers who pass it back to the lady? This happens every day here - many many times a day!

It is second nature that old ladies waiting for a bus outside the shuk expect younger people to help them with their bags - and people do it without bragging and without complaining. Helping people is part of the culture. Being polite was always seen as extraneous. Probably because most people are polite to strangers but they aren't necessarily as polite to brothers and sisters. In Israel everyone is your brother and sister - so there is no reason to be polite.

That said the anglos are coming in droves these days and we are bringing our manners to the melting pot - like it or not brothers and sisters.

I think you can get many, if not most stuff there, although some things are pretty expensive. Say, with food, I find that they don't have everything that they carry over here.

I find that their quality is ^%$%$#*#, so if you want good stuff, you either pay for imported, or put up with their cheapy things.

 You need to get out more.

 Japan ring a bell? How about rural Mexico? Or good ol' small town USA?

More like a sign of weakness intolerable for the tough-like-steel, take-no-prisoners "new Jew". 

Except the Israeli Arabs, the Palestinians, the anti-Zionists, the gays, the secular "elitah", the non-Jewish Russians, etc., etc. right Pinchas?

Not true. Some of the rudest people I've encountered were Chassidim in Meah Shearim. No group has a monopoly on rudeness in Israel.

Oy lerasha, oy lishcheno.

Maybe so.

But you still need to chill out.

I am sure Israel is not a panacea but nowhere is. Here in London nobody talks to each other, knife crime is rampant, you are cool if you take drugs and are rude to your fellow citizens and racism is rampant. The cost of living has tripled and everyone is miserable. I'm not expecting Israel to be paradise on earth, it would just be nice to experience living in another country (I lived in Berlin for 6 months and loved it) that has a meditteranean climate etc and if it doesn't work out, so be it. But I don't want to regret not going and be an old bubele thinking "what if?".

Out of curiosity, where are you living krumlikeapretzel and why are you against people moving to Israel? Have you had experience of living there? I am genuinely curious and I am sure you have an interesting reason.

PS. I echo Goldfish in saying that some of the rudest 'Israelis' are the Chassidim. They won't even acknowledge me, being of the lesser sex and all...

I'm not against people moving to Israel. I very strongly dislike Israel. I've never been to a place where I was mistreated, where I felt more out of place and uncomfortable or where I desperately wanted to leave asap, as Israel.

I recommend you see the thread "Pleasantly Surprised" where some of the people here say THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SAY ANYTHING AGAINST ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THEIR INTERPRETATION OF JUDAISM. So I warn you to take their opinions with at a very large grain of salt.

As supposed to in Krum's NK interpretation of Judaism where one is not allowed to say anything good about Israel...

That is not what I'm saying. You'll get that sort of behavior wherever you find Chassidim in the world. I was talking about a particular brand of rudeness that you'll only find in Israel. Among all groups. Equally.

Like I told someone on another thread, maybe your experience oughtn't be the basis of what other people should do. Just because you had a bad experience, doesn't mean other people will.


A lot of people say this; it's not like anyone here made this up.

It seems to me that like talking about people, there is lashon hara and there is talking l'toelet. If someone is considering making aliyah you ought not lie and sugarcoat things for them.

And I, being frum and all, found the RUDEST Israelis being those in TA who couldn't even hide their contempt and lack of respect for another's choice of life.


*You mean People?

Canadian, living here for 7 years.

The culture is different- no question. As I understand it, (having never been to England myself), the English tend to be reserved, even stand-offish. That is certainly not the case here. People will be more than glad to butt in to your business, tell you how you should do things, give advice, opinions, etc. It took me some time to get used to this, (not exactly de rigeur in Canada, either), but as I see it, it's really coming from a caring place. It's hard to see that when the 6th person is telling you that your kid is cold, why don't they have a coat on, but they're saying something b/c they care. There's no place else that when I walk on the streets, I feel like I belong as much as here.

In terms of goods, I'm a big importer, I happen to not buy many things here. Things are much cheaper in the U.S., and I have access to people coming and who are willing to bring things for us. You certainly can buy furniture, prams etc. here- even very good quality- but they will be significantly more expensive (though considering how much things are in England, maybe they'll be what you'd expect to pay). Foodwise, there really isn't anything you can't find here- it may cost you, but it can be found. (We even have Marmite!)

Bureaucracy is bureaucracy, no matter what country you're in. You can really butt heads with people, and it can be frustrating and maddening, but when you're really in a pinch- and I have been, several times- instead of saying, sorry ma'am, these are the rules- a lot of times people are willing to go the extra mile for you. It's to your advantage to learn Hebrew, though- I think that will make things less confusing/overwhelming.

Overall- good luck- and enjoy! This is one of the most special and unique places in all the world to live.

Perhaps they got fed up of the abuse they recieve from the charedim for not being religious. Some of the things I saw in Jerusalem really shocked me, such as haredi men shouting at an elderly female relative of mine because she dared to go out driving on a shabbat (and she had been living in the area far longer than them). It works both ways and I doubt that secular TA types are going to stone your car if you drive in to a 'gay area' or shout at you for not wearing a skimpy top. I imagine the worst you will get is a nasty look or comment which is wrong but not really as intolerant as most of the 'my way or the highway' charedim.

krumlikeapretzel - why do you strongly dislike Israel? Is it from your personal experience of the people/culture or are you politically against Israel (i.e. anti-Zionist). You also didn't say where you are from/living?

Israelis are so awful, so arrogant, so rude, so inconsiderate, so cold and the regime running the place is so dictatorial, so militaristic and so paranoid it's hard to believe that any but the most brainwashed would not hate it. The impression I get universally from Israeli yordim is that anyone who can leave does, and for good reason.
Finally someone that talks rationally...
I think it all depends on where you come from. Probably you dislike whoever you 
dentify with the least. I found working class non-Haredi, presumably mizrahi Jerusalemites the worst by far. (The worst people 
ever, anywhere)

A bit of both. I mostly became anti-Zionist after the horrible things I experienced and saw in Israel. (Before that I was too young to really have a political view either way)

I'm sorry that you had a horrible experience here.

I'm sorry too. I don't think you can judge a whole country though on the people you met there. I have had loads of bad experiences here in London too but I would never say I am anti-English. I also find the French extremely rude and arrogant (and anti-semitic) but I would never say I am anti-French. You can't judge a whole country by the people you met (unless you met all 7 million of them and they were all horrible, which I doubt). A lot of people here in Europe are very ready to dismiss all Americans because of Bush and I find that so ignorant and ridiculous - its exactly how Hitler behaved and they certainly don't want to emulate him. Its a shame you had a bad experience but Israelis are certainly not unique (try going to Germany and see how cold and rude some Germans can be).

My husband is Israeli and he is the nicest, kindest, most decent man I have met. I also have met many many Israelis who have been so kind, thoughful and not at all brash as some Israelis can be.

You still haven't said where you are/from.

No, I don't. Only Chassidim will not look at women. If you ask a man of any other religious stripe for directions, they will look at you; only Chassidish men won't.*

*Though some will. I don't mean that all Chassidim won't look at a woman but only Chassidim won't look at a woman.

I was born in Latin America and grew up in the US. I've also lived in East Asia.

You should try just being anti something sometime. It's fun.

Yeah... I'm Anti-Nubie Goddesses for example...

If you were that young when you had this bad experience perhaps you ought to reconsider your views now that you're older and wiser.

Getting back to the original poster, I work in import to Israel, and have personally helped hundreds of people ship their goods here. I also am quite familiar with which products do and do not make sense to import, as well as the laws, taxes, etc.

As a general rule, good quality goods are harder to find and more expensive here. Cheaper products are the same or cheaper here.

So if you're thinking of having a Miele Dishwasher or an Amana (UK) Fridge, import. If you're thinking that you want very nice high end hardwood or leather furniture, import.

If, on the other hand, you're thinking that you don't mind buying lower-end appliances, used goods, and just want to keep the costs to a minimum, it doesn't make sense to import.

If you already own good quality goods, it very well might make sense to ship them over. It makes no sense to ship an Ikea (or pressboard/particleboard) bookcase that has already been assembled. Any shipping company you consider should come to your home to survey your goods (for free - no obligation) and that way you can compare the cost of shipping versus replacing.

We recently had a baby, and I can say that all cotton clothing for babies is available, but you have to hunt for it. You can find pants, shirts, and jumpers for about 20 NIS per piece. We have Peg Perego strollers, as well as several other brands. The stores have strollers/prams starting at about 600 NIS, but you can get second hand much less (or free). I saw Baby Beds (not cribs, as we got ours free) starting at 600 NIS plus the mattress (another 200 NIS) and changing tables/Drawers (new) also starting at about 800 NIS. I wasn't overly impressed with the quality, but I wasn't shopping for hardwood stuff, just decently made durable goods.
I can say that most of our needs were filled by friends and family for free. Diapers are 60-65 sheks for the large pack (Huggies) and I buy five-pack of wipes for 25 sheks.

As for where to live, if your husband has family in Jerusalem, live near them. I live in the city center, in a mixed neighborhood (Nachlaot). Jerusalem is a more family oriented city, and there is plenty to do as far as family freindly activites, as well as the few times that Mommy and Daddy want to leave the kids behind and find what to do. It is NOT the party town that Tel-Aviv is, but I doubt you're looking for a party town. I lived in Tel-Aviv for about 2 years before I moved to Jerusalem and got married, and I was very unimpressed. Had I been 25 and single it would have been more enjoyable, but compared to Philadelphia (I was there at 25), it didn't hold a candle, and having lived so close to NYC... The advantage to a Londoner is that the night starts at about 10, and continues until morning, but if you're used to the London assortment (culture, shopping, what-to-do) Tel-Aviv will be lacking. I am what most people would call secular, btw.

Be prepared - moving to another country (especially here) is amazingly difficult. You will NOT live the standard of living that you do there, you will not make close to the money that you do there, you will live in a much smaller house, you will need to work twice as hard as an immigrant to make the meager salary that you will, and many native borns will think that as an "Oleh Hadash" you get a free ride (which is a joke).

I strongly suggest paying off all of your debt there, and putting aside 6 months salary before you come. I also strongly suggest applying to NBN for a grant, even if you don't think you will qualify.