To a friend of yours with whom you had worked -- and he was just not a good worker, comes in late, not responsible, makes lots of mistakes, etc. Has some good qualities to though. A very nice guy, you like him a lot.

Would you agree if he asked you to be his reference? If not, what would you tell him?

If you agree, and someone calls you, do you tell the whole truth, or do you just talk of the good things, and sidestep or embellish questions about things your friend is not very good at?

No, I would not agree.

If you can, tell him you don't feel you can give a 100% positive reference (maybe because you're such good friends, i.e., you know him at his worst). If you've worked with him, you can't really tell him that you're not familiar with his work, I suppose.


[Is this in Opinions for a reason? I wonder if you're drawing a parallel between job references and other kind of references... ]

What if your friend is very hurt by your refusal, the friend really needs a job and this is your chance to help him/her out?

[I have no idea what the purpose of the Opinion section is - isn't this whole website "Opinion" ]

most probably

which?

oh, sorry, i edited the post mentally

would just talk about the good point, unless asked directly

Q. "Would you say she does good work?"
A. ____________


Q. "Would you say she is responsible?"
A._______________

This is what I'd do. I'd do that on a reference letter as well - highlight his strong points and avoid his weak ones.

However, if he'd approach me about why I was sidestepping his weak points, I would be honest and tell him the truth.

I think it would depend on how the reference reflected on ME. For example, I have a cousin who can't hold down a job for more than a few months (and most of the time, only a few weeks, IF that), frequently does not show up and does not call, fights with coworkers, argues with employers, and does not have a highly marketable skill set (think, "would you like fries with that?"). I may give her a reference if she applies at McDonalds, but if she were to apply at my place of employment and wanted me to put in a good word with the boss, or she applied with someone I knew, my only response would be "cousin who? I don't have any cousin....".

That is definitely a tough situation to be in. That said, I am not comfortable giving a good reference to someone who is a terrible employee, mostly because I have had to work with a number of incompetent, lazy and irresponsible people over the years who clearly had people lie about the quality of their work in order for them to get their jobs. If they are asking for a low level job, I guess I could live with that, but in terms of serious jobs with responsibility, I would really try hard to get out of that situation.

I was in a very similar situation a few years ago except that the woman was only a so-so friend from work [but someone who mistakenly thought she was one of my best friends], was a horrible employee in every single way that was important, but in this case she gave my name out as a reference before she asked for my permission, so I was really put on the spot, as I had not had the opportunity to turn her down. Since I didn't want to cost her the job, I said whatever positive things I could about her when asked (as she was a very friendly and outgoing person), but when asked more specific questions about the quality of her work and her skills, I told the recruiter that I hadn't worked with her in that capacity and therefore wasn't really qualified to answer those questions. I encouraged him to call one of the other people she gave out as a reference who was her former boss [who had laid her off due to her incompetence but was willing to lie for her since he was responsible for her unemployment]. So I said some nice things about her personality which were true but avoided all the difficult questions, which I think in itself sent the recruiter a message without my saying anything negative about her. She did end up getting the job based on her former boss, but at least it wasn't as a result of my lying on her behalf.

I couldn't lie. If he really needs a job and he's really my friend, I might try to network for him or keep an eye out for job openings. And if he needed a reference and had no one else to use, I'd agree to be one but I'd warn him ahead of time that I would not lie for him.


[Read your first post in the context of shidduchim. I thought you may have meant it as a slightly humorous dig to the system.]

I think the value system you and others in the thread are using is very interesting.

What do you mean by that? In my case, the woman didn't even get my permission first and I was put on the spot.

I had an employee once. He stole money from me. He worked when he felt like if at all. He mouthed off to people. He didnt return phone calls. He was unreliable.
When I canned him I got calls from prospective employers.
I told them: "You would be lucky to get this guy to work for you."
"I cannot recommend him highly enough."
Eventually with some repetition they got the idea.

What you pay is what you get, mister.

I didn't mean you. What I mean is that on one hand there is a real human being who is your good friend, who needs to find a job and take care of his family, and on the other hand are faceless organizations and abstract principles. It is hard for me to understand how the latter can be placed before the former.

No, the phrase is "if you pay peanuts, you hire monkeys."

But since you do not know what our pay arrangement was or any other details, I can only conclude you are an ######.