I was just reading an essay about post-high school "Year in Israel" programs and I came across this:
The essay is here

I'm pleasantly surprised that a pro-Israel institution would recognize that there is the possibility of someone 
honestly not liking Israel... I have never been able to get any of what I'd call, for lack of a better term, Israel freaks I've met both online and IRL to give credence to any hint that EY is anything less than a paradise populated by the nicest people in the world.

Perhaps there are other normal pro-Israel people besides Melech and the handful of people who support Meimad...

I have never met anyone who claims that it is a paradise where everything is completely perfect. But it's sad that negative opinions of the land seem to fill you with glee.

That's why we have Tisha B'av...

You've been talking to the wrong people. I'm an Israel freak and I think there's a lot wrong with the place and the people.

We're not permitted to say LH (and of course motzi shem ra, onaat devarim, etc.) about Eretz Yisrael. Whether people choose to do so (or to what extent) is a slightly different issue.

Pinchas?

ETA:The discovery that not everyone in that camp is a total hypocrite fills me with more than glee.

Just to add:
" R. Mordechai Eliyahu wrote that one is not allowed to complain about the heat
in EY. He brought a proof from R. Ami and R. Assi in Kesubos 112b, who made
sure to be in the shade during the summer and in the sun during the winter.
Rashi there explains that they did that in order to make sure that they
would not complain about living in EY. I would add that similarly, R.
Chanina (112a) would smoothen out the roads in order that (according to
Rashi) there wouldn't be a shem ra about the roads in EY."

( http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol23/v23n138.shtml#08 )

Is that how we pasken? Can you provide a siman in Shulchan Aruch?

And supposing we pasken like that, given reality *wouldn't this be an argument for not living in EY*?

And when pray tell did I say that?

Again, I repeat people percieve what they want to believe and not what they actually see written.

(If you review my posts you will see time and time again I write that making Aliyah is hard... but still well worth it.)

No. It would be an argument to work on one's attitude.

Well you could start with Orach Chayim 580:2...

Why wouldn't we pasken that way? The holiness of eretz Yisrael is eternal; eretz Yisrael contains kedusha; 9/10ths of the world's beauty was given to it.
Rashi explained that parshat Shalach (parsha of the meraglim) comes right about Tzaarat (when Miriam spoke LH) to show that the Meraglim saw what happened to Miriam, and yet still failed to learn from it.
Evenmoreso, If we speak LH then, then how are we any different? Then we're also failing to learn from them. We have 2 consecutive parshas telling us how severe it is to speak LH, and even b'mefurash bashing Eretz Yisrael.

So, Why do we even need a siman to help us understand why we can't slander the land G-d chose for us?

I have never once heard/learned a mefaresh or rabbi say that we're allowed to speak LH about Eretz Yisrael nowadays.


Certainly not.Why would it be? Just b/c it's not easy to keep this prohibition?

Do we take midrashim literally or not? Or only when we like them?

I've never heard a rabbi say we're allowed walk on Tuesdays. So?

At any rate, the feeding frenzy I easily provoked just shows how insecure you all are in your nationalistic attitudes.

I rarely use this, but...

The last people who tried that caused all sorts of wonderful things to happen, like tisha biav, 40 years wandering the desert and they themselves had a really lovely death involving flies and belly buttons.


9

Let me get this straight.
Someone provoked a bunch of fanatics on tisha beav, then they wandered the desert for 40 years, only to die passing a direct current through a fly into their belly button.
Either get off the acid, or share some.

Did I mention Orach Chayim 580:2?

You didnt get it straight.

The fanatics you're referring to is Hashem. The fact that He was provoked caused tisha bi'av. The provokers caused the rest of the jews to wander for 40 years, and then they were punished with the flies belly button death treatment.

And no, my stash is my stash. Get your own.

9

can't you share a little?

a teeeny tiny bit?

pretty please?

Thats the only things I dont like sharing, drugs and drug needles. Sorry.

9

All 12 of them...

ETA I wrote a long response but then realized I was only feeding a troll and there is no point in even posting it...

I only hope that one day you will find it in your heart to care about your OWN people, your extended family, you own flesh and blood, as much as you do all the people who want to see us destroyed...

If there was ever a quintessential example of self-hatred this is it. And you might think that term is "idiotic" and that no one hates themselves but what you don't realize is that by hating and fighting against people who are intrinsically connected to you (whether you acknowledge it or not) you are ultimately hurting yourself and undermining your own cause. In the end you are only betraying YOURSELF...