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What blatant antisemitism! Only Israel could be committing war crimes by not committing them! Astounding!

It's antisemitism and it's a bunch of hooey. I find it ridiculous that during such a long military occupation, and so much fighting there would have been absolutely no rapes. On the other hand, saying that there being no large-scale incidents of rape is "political" or somehow bad is obviously anti-semitism.

Yeah, I read that. It's pretty twisted.

Only a liberal israeli could be so ingeniously twisted to come up with somethine like that!

wth??

Um, but have you seen these women?

In some cases no amount of liquor will be sufficient.

Ridiculous!?!? You expect that kind of behavior?

Boys will be boys?

In military conflicts it's pretty much a given. You can assume there were rapes, albeit isolated, when they took over Yehuda and Shomron in 1967, and you can also assume that in 
the major incursions like in Jenin there were probably isolated cases of rape. 
There are multiple reports of IDF soldiers raping Jewish women over the years, and there are also reports of rape during the Lebanon conflict from a couple years ago.

First of all, I question what kind of research this person could have made to find out there are absolutely no rapes. Does she mean that there isn't an organized order for soldiers to rape? That doesn't exist anywhere. Soldiers in any army rape despite the orders of their superiors, not because of them.

This assumption that IDF soldiers are great tzaddikim or uber-racists sounds very fake. If you want to say frum soldiers from hesder programs don't rape women I might believe it. But stam IDF? Get real...

You are way off.
The IDF soldiers may not be tsadikim but they could never get away with it. You are assuming there were a few rapes in Jenin. The arabs did everything they could to twist what happaned in Jenin. They made a moovie Jenin Jenin which painted a completely different picture than what really happaned. But they did not mention anything about any rapes. Surely someone would of hearr or known about it and made a big deal out of it.
In the Israeli Army you could get in major trouble if you even perform a security check on a women. The arabs can file a complain on almost anything.

Stupid.

I'm not familiar with that movie, nor am I overly interested in watching it. I'm pretty much sick of all the shamelessly one-sided accounts on both sides.

For the muslims it's a grave humiliation for their female relatives to be raped so they probably wouldn't publicize it. Besides arabs care about arab women about to the same extent as the IDF, ie 0.

All I'm saying, which a well-known fact is that a certain percentage of soldiers in any army will rape women when they take over a civilian population center. In the end, neither the Israeli left-wing researcher nor you nor anyone can say there were 0 rapes. How exactly would this be investigated?

Let's assume the women would not come forward with accusations fearing their own family members kill them (a very legitimate fear in the Arab world). So you assume if there's no official complaint then there's nothing. Wrong.

About the IDF being very strict- the IDF is not going to execute a soldier for raping an an Arab woman, right? (even the mamzerim who raped an 11-year-old Jewish girl were not executed) On the other hand during WW2 Red Army officers would shoot their own soldiers point-blank for the slightest violations and still when they took any German cities they used to go around shouting "Frau! Frau!" and raped women of all ages.

At least I think we all agree (I hope) that this business of "Israel is bad because it doesn't send it's soldiers to rape women" is a hoard of ####.

What is that supposed to mean?
Many Palestinian women are beautiful.

Yeah, that too, but that wasn't my point.

Well many many Arab women are, but they are in a much higher class of Arab society. Like in Jordan or UAE and even Turkey. Everyone in the Arab world knows Palestinian Arabs are the lowest of the lowest class - which is why neither Jordan nor Egypt want to accept them. Yes, this is politically incorrect but true none the less.

Why is it such a wrong premise to say that there are less rapes simply because the women are less attractive? It's wrong because it's politically incorrect to say people are not created equal. There are many countries known for having beautiful women - Sweden, Italy, Amsterdam, France etc... Palestine, however, is not known for its women.

?

Now there are Arabs in Turkey, but I'm sure that's not what you meant.

Anyway, I didn't know rapists only went after Swedish, Italian etc. models...

I agree the report is ridiculous and certainly anti-semitic but it is hard to deny that it is true...

Besides the IDF soldiers have enough "stimuli" from the female mattresses soldiers, they hardly need to reduce themselves to commandeering A-rab woman.....

Okay, this post is so off that I hardly know where to begin.

First of all, Turkey is not an Arab country. Turks are not Arabs.

Palestinian Arabs are actually not "the lowest of the lowest class". They happen to be one of the more (if not the most) educated of the Arab populations (largely thanks to the Israelis building lots of universities in the West Bank).

Again, Palestinian women are not objectively less attractive than any other women.
Personally I don't happen to think Dutch women or Swedish women or French women are particularly attractive.
Find me your average Dutch woman and your average Palestinian women and I will probably think the Palestinian woman is more attractive. I don't find the pale pasty white look so terribly sexy.

How about with the assumption that rape is due to the physical attractiveness of the victim, as if rape is something other than than an act of violence?

Why arent more men being raped?

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Many are. But acts of violence tend to be perpetrated against seemingly less powerful victims.

The numbers dont even compare. There obviously is some degree of physical attractiveness.

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That only strengthens the question because there are MANY acts of excessive and "unnecessary" violence commited by soldiers against Arabs daily. And furthermore there ARE plenty of reports of sexual misconduct AMONGST the soldiers themselves. So the question needs to be asked why physical, verbal violence YES, sexual violence NO against the Arabs when it DOES exist (and one could even say is rampant) amongst the ranks of the army....

That's ridiculous.

Explain why men are rarely, if not ever, raped.



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Because women are...in this department,accoutermentally challenged?

What do you mean?

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They don't have wieners...

Which is why guys dont get raped- rapists dont find weiners physically attractive.

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I believe the point was, if we assume that women would rape men if they could, the reason more men are not raped is because women lack the tool.

I was talking about being raped by guys. If it was all about violence, they'd rape whoever they wanted to commit violence against.

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To my understanding, rape is primarily an act of violence rather than a sexual act. It's like pouring bleach on someone - that would be an act of violence rather than an act of cleansing, even if it involves the person getting cleaner from the bleach.

It most definitely is an act of violence. My point was that there is some degree of physical attraction in choosing the victim. (obviously in a different extent than you normally would refer to when using the words physical attraction)

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I see.

There's always the posibility of attacking them like the cops attacked Abner Louima but I'm not sure that qualifies as rape.

I actually had a roommate in high school who was raped by a gang of women...despite being accosted,he was strangely aroused...or so he claimed.

It depends if you consider rape merely a violent crime, or a sexually violent crime.


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Why wouldn't that be considered rape as well?

Because it's easier to rape a woman than a man. Because men are, in general, stronger than women.



The prime example is the rape that goes on in prisons. You think those guys are gay?

(And my understanding is that rape is about power, not violence, but I may be wrong.)

You think easier targets is the only part of the selection of victims?


I dont think being gay has anything to do with it. You cant prove anything from desperate men locked up only with men.

(its about power, violence, and sex)

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Were these women his age? His peers? It sounds too strange. And I'd believe him - why on earth would someone MAKE UP such a claim?

No they were older than him. He was definitely affected by it.

Not hard to imagine.

I think it's a part of it.



I don't think being gay has anything to do with it, either. You asked Pure Myrrh why more guys aren't getting raped by guys. And I told you that in prison, they are. And the reason for that is that in prison, there are only guys. In other words, the rapists take the opportunities they get. My point was, the rapes that take place in prison have nothing to do with sexual attractiveness, which is to say that rape isn't dictated by sexual attractiveness.

And btw, rape in prison doesn't have to do with "desperate men." Because you know something, I know plenty of desperate men who don't go raping other men (and I'm sure you know plenty, too). Rape in prison has to do with terrible people having the opportunity to do terrible things. It has very little to do with attraction. It also has relatively little to do with sex. It is largely about power. And it is easier to overpower a weaker person than a stronger person.

Btw, male victims make up at least about 10% of all rape victims, and probably more (due to underreporting).

Again, when someone says attraction in relation to rape its not attraction in the normal context of attraction. It means more like who the rapist finds more attraction for rape, NOT the same thing as sexual attractiveness. Rape has a lot more factors than just power.
And no, being gay has nothing to do with it.


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Okay.

And for the record, we agree about the gaiety. So put that aside.

There are 2 possibilities here:

1. The IDF is indeed the most moral army in the world (as per Rabbis Avi Weiss, Mordechai Eliyahu etc.).

2. Arab women fear reporting rape because that would mean an instant death sentence.

The family would not publicize it. But someone would. At least one person would have said something. It is humilation and the Arabs would jump on such an oppurtunity to show the world how terrible the Israeli Soldiers are.



I did not say that I know that there was never any cases through out the years. It is usually well known when such actions are performed. (for example the Japanese raped the koreans in world war II) It is very difficult to keep it quiet. You could keep 1-2 cases quiet over the years but not more than that.



What is your point? If an IDF soldier was caught raping anyone he would be punished harshly. He wouldn't be executed. You don't even get executed for murder in Israel. It is also not required to execute someone for such actions according to halacha. You don't generally get executed in the US for rape either.

I am not sure if you have served in the Israeli Army or lived in Israel but you are way off. You don't seem to know how things work in the army.
If you shoot a bullet in the air you can face trial. If you perform a security check on a woman and touch her, she can file a complaint about you.
There are plenty bad things you can say about the IDF, but don't accuse them of crimes you assume they take when you have no basis for it.
The IDF should be criticized for kicking Jews out of their homes. They should be criticized for not doing their job in protecting their citizens and not fighting the enemy as it should. But they can't be criticized for raping women.
There is no other military in the world that has been as concerned in protecting the safety of their enemy as the IDF.

1. The IDF is the most moral army in the world towards its enemy, yet they are not moral towards their own people.

2. As I said above unless it is 1-2 isolated cases they would not be able to keep it quiet. Someone would find out about it at some point and get it out to the media.

I think you're strongly underestimating the stigma of rape in the Arab world, and you're strongly overestimating the transparency of the IDF.
Wow, you obviously haven't read too many of my posts.

Just in case you have any doubts-
1. Someone with my background would, if I shared your ideology, at best do sherut leumi.
2. Serving in any army or police force would be an anathema to my way of thinking and my entire value system.
3. Israel would have to change into a completely different country for me not to find working for the Israeli government unacceptable. (think end the occupation, follow halacha and respect international law)
There is no military in the world that has been concerned in protecting the safety of their enemy, and that includes the IDF.

ETA and OT: For the record the US soldiers raped civilians when they occupied Saipan and Okinawa
 and they still periodically rape young girls in Okinawa, in case your victors' history omits it.