Any clear online sources for understanding basic Lubavitch ideas? NOT mind boggling essays. It would be much easier for me if there's a chart, like
What is a nefesh |types of Nefesh| descriptions of Nefesh | sources for words used in chart

What is a tzaddik | qualifications | implications | supporting sources

A chart you want, eh. How about a painting ?

maybe you need a chavruta - Lubavitchers are more than happy to set up even one-on-one study programs - maybe contact your local chabad shul

If it's al mnas lekanter, it's not worth the time and effort really, as it's a Bira Amiksa ...

A chart. Or anything clear. I think the language used to explain it is confusing me, so a visual presentation may clarify.

I feel too guilty about even thinking about it the first place to dedicate regular time to learn it. I just want to understand the basic ideas well enough to discuss them and get basic references to concepts.

it's al mnas l'kabel pras.

You can join my shiur, you know. Or go into 770 on Sundays....

And mah pit'om?

Is it interesting? Is the speaker a great person?


1. Why should I absorb it in bits and pieces when I could just get it in condensed form and take up less space in my head.
2. Got curious enough. If you and Yehudi are both into it, it's probably interesting.
3. Better than annoying the Tanya-Taught of H.com with questions. (though probably will anyway)
4. I want to see how Lubavitch culture and Tanya connect.

because like everything else when its in "bits and pieces" its not the whole [real] thing.



Don't bring any proofs from what Yehudi is into, he is into all sorts of things, besides which he may have ulterior motvies...



what wrong with doing that (as long as you don't expect the whole Torah on one foot



I see.

The entire text of Lessons in Tanya (by Harav Adin Steinzaltz) is online here:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/...h/Chapter-1.htm

If you still have questions after learning that, you can always ask the shlichim on AskMoses (askmoses.com). Or you can always post your doubts here on h.com. There's several talmidei chachamim who have a good command of chassidus here. (Right K-R, Shaya Getzl, Deep Quest et al?)

2.
4. If they connect.


Like anyone else on H.com.

IIANM That is NOT from Rabbi Adin Steinzaltz, while yes he does have a "Biur haTanya" and he did indeed translate it into english, that is NOT it.

ETA I don't mean this as anything against that translation, just that it happenes NOT to be from him.

R. Steinsaltz's Tanya books:

http://www.steinsaltz.org/dynamic/content.asp?id=23

[I've only read the first one which is chapters 1-12].

Right. My mistake. Thanks for correcting it

I agree, go with the Lessons in Tanya, he makes it as self explanatory as possible.... The perush was originally a Yiddish radio show (reviewed by the Rebbe before broadcast) and was eventually written down and translated into English and Hebrew.

Oh and my advice is not to bite off more than you can chew. The Tanya was written for the most poshut of all Jews and the biggest talmeidi chachamim alike, and it can be understood on MANY levels. The first time around ignore as much of the Kaballah speak as possible (you still need to understand the basic stuff like the 10 sefiros, klipos, and the Right side, Left side and Middle Kav) and just focus on the main idea he is trying to convey. Once you get that you can go back and learn b'iyun. But the likelihood of someone "mastering" the Tanya on the first try with no background in Kaballah and Chassidus is not very promising.
Stick to the "peshat" the first time around...

Oh and if you REALLY feel guilty, learn nefesh hachayim. Many of the ideas are similar and the sefer has been nicknamed "Tanya for misnagdim"...

Basically, you're bound to get many ideas contrary to the original writer's line of thought unless you have slaved away with the basic fundamentals and have a thorough understanding of the concepts that are being used _prior_ to jumping in. For example, the inyan of hiskashrus and of "Pnei Moishe Kipnei ..", unless you've absorbed at least G-P-T and Maharshu on it, can literally get to into things that are begeder yv"y, and that surely wasn't AR's intention.

Tanya is really hard , i still have trouble even with the lessons in tanya
It's a very intellectual sefer
Likutei MOharan is mad hard and almos t impossible to understand but i think i understand a little more in there than in Tanya

It's easier to see something all at once.

Thanks.

It's great, I just read the first chapter.

4. How can they not?

Yes.

Like Rashi, supposedly?

Not enough people are going to want to discuss it.

Pardon my ignorance, but where does it discuss "Pnei Moshe Kipnei" in the Tanya ?

What concepts and what G?

Because people like twisting words to fit their own beliefs and agendas? Because true meanings are lost over time? Because Chabad is not less prone to evolution than chassidus or Judaism as a whole?

It does not. However, people learning anything in chassidus will eventually get to the concept of hikashrus (and if they don't, then it's not a honest pursuit and should've never begun).

Anything everyone in a culture is studying, or supposed to be studying, is bound to be in some way connected to their culture. Especially a book written to create the culture, sort of.

That is probably one of the most ridiculous things I ever heard. You'd like to take up _less_ space in your head with Tania, so that you'll fill it up with what, sudoku and Britney Spears ? Mi bikesh zos, why not hand it all over to sudoku and be done with it ...

Nah, fill it up with Torah and halacha and tefila and mussar.

I actually specifically asked about "pnei Moshe kepnei.." since "hiskashrus" IS [in a way, sort of] discussed\mentioned in the fourth part of the tanya Iggros Hakodesh, epistle 27 (although when people say they are learning tanya especially for the first time, I don't think they mean that part).

but I guess I hear you (whether I agree is a separate issue).

You can interpret most things the way you want to interpret them.

Do you think the Tanya isn't connected to L culture?


Ok, question:

Does the Tanya not differentiate between nefesh, ruach, neshama, chaya, yechida?


My main issue throughout is zeh l'umas zeh. I'm used to thinking that there is a seeming balance of good and bad in the world, but everything is originally good or neutral and turns seemingly bad. He seems to be saying that there is essentially more evil in the world.


(Not that I understand most of it, but trying to avoid being boggled too fast. The next chapter will probably explain sichlit.)

I haven't the foggiest about L culture.

Except for the existence of an OPS there, that is. And that only according to L friends.

Depends where, many times it will refer to all the levels at once as just Neshamah, also most of the time they are grouped into two groups, the lower being Nefesh, Ruah and Neshamah, the higher being Chaye and yechida [Yechida being the highest]



Perhaps this may explain it for you [although I am not yet sure what exactly is your question] the word "Assur" (from the Tanya's perspective) comes from the word "Tied" as in "tied up to Kelipah" the word "Muttar" is from "untied to kelippah" therefore something that is Assur, is getting its energy (so to speak) through Kelippah.

I would note that it is explained (by others, elsewhere) that when it talks about non-jews it is NOT referring to the righteous non-jews (who keep the 7 mitzvot bnei noach etc, and who have a share in the world to come as the Rambam writes).

(as for the "Nefesh hasichlit" it is hardly mentioned at all in the the tanya)

Isn't that the second chapter, where he explains how one source can 'differenciate' into so many different kinds of neshamos?


I thought 'ovdei gelulin' was a later change to make those parts more PC, and that the original DID have nonJews.

yeah, (but all souls [as he says there] consists of these levels).



Yeah, I never said not like that, what I said was that it was not speaking about the "righteous gentiles", that said there is a big gap between not "avodei gelilim" and righteous.

OK.

OK.

Thanks a ton.

Just did the second chapter, and really enjoyed it even though it felt like a lot went over my head.

What's the Etz Chaim?

R Chayim Vital. One of the central "Kisvei Arizal"...
There's also Pri Eitz Chayim by the same author.

Should I look up something sourced in it? If so, where is it available online?

It probably won't help to look it up, and I doubt there is an online copy (but these days who knows)

http://www.hebrew.grimoar.cz/vital/ec_chajim.htm

Well I'll be damned....

We knew that already.

Hey at least I accept it and live accordingly. You are going to waste your entire life trying to be holy then thou and then end up right next door to me...

I will NEVER, EVER end up next door to you -- that alone would be Gehinom for me.

Exactly...

Thank you! How'd you find that?

http://www.google.com --> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=&...G=Google+Search --> http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/עץ...פר) --> http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/עץ....A1.D7.A4.D7.AA (לקריאה נוספת) --> http://www.hebrew.grimoar.cz/vital/ec_chajim.htm

There are four worlds, one within the other? How can sefirot be 'within' each other?

Maybe by Binah must have a little chochmah and Dass has to have chochmah and bina etc

I still don't understand.