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Yehudi
QUOTE([url="http://www.famousrabbis.com/my/1.htm")
Mesilas Yesharim ch. 1[/url]]....Our Sages of blessed memory have taught us that man was created for the sole purpose of rejoicing in God and deriving pleasure from the splendor of His Presence; for this is true joy and the greatest pleasure that can be found. The place where this joy may truly be derived is the World to Come, which was expressly created to provide for it; but the path to the object of our desires is this world, as our Sages of blessed memory have said ( Pirkei Avos 4:21), "This world is like a corridor to the World to Come."


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....To summarize, a man was created not for his station in this world, but for his station in the World to Come. It is only that his station in this world is a means towards his station in the World to Come, which is the ultimate goal. This accounts for numerous statements of our Sages of blessed memory, all in a similar vein, likening this world to the place and time of preparation, and the next world to the place which has been set aside for rest and for the eating of what has already been prepared. This is their intent in saying (Avoth 4:21), "This world is similar to a corridor ...," as our Sages of blessed memory have said (Eruvin 22a), "Today for their performance and tomorrow to receive their reward," "He who exerted himself on Friday will eat on the Sabbath" (Avodah Zarah 3a), "This world is like the shore and the World to Come like the sea ..." (Koheleth Rabbah 1:36), and many other statements along the same lines.


while I may understand how you may fit this in with the often cited chazal "that I was created only to serve my master" (see for example kedushin 82a among other places) how does this fit or perhaps it does not fit with what is stated in chassidic text (based on the Midrash Tanchuma Noso 16 [and other places]), that the purpose of man on this world is to "make a dwelling place for the creator on the lowest level" ?
existwhere?
QUOTE(Yehudi @ Dec 30 2007, 12:28 PM) *
while I may understand how you may fit this in with the often cited chazal "that I was created only to serve my master" (see for example kedushin 82a among other places) how does this fit or perhaps it does not fit with what is stated in chassidic text (based on the Midrash Tanchuma Noso 16 [and other places]), that the purpose of man on this world is to "make a dwelling place for the creator on the lowest level" ?

I think i remember reading something similar in the Gesher Hachaim in English but am not sure where my copy went.

And isn't this against al tih'yu k'avadim hameshamshil es harav al menas l'kabel pras?

And doesn't he say something similar to what you're saying here:
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It is indeed fitting that his every inclination be towards the Creator, may His Name be blessed, and that his every action, great or small, be motivated by no purpose other than that of drawing near to the Blessed One and breaking all the barriers (all the earthy elements and their concomitants) that stand between him and his Possessor, until he is pulled towards the Blessed One just as iron to a magnet. Anything that might possibly be a means to acquiring this closeness, he should pursue and clutch, and not let go of; and anything which might be considered a deterrent to it, he should flee as from a fire. As it is stated (Psalms 63:9), "My soul clings to You; Your right hand sustains me." For a man enters the world only for this purpose - to achieve this closeness by rescuing his soul from all the deterrents to it and from all that detracts from it.
Yehudi
QUOTE(existwhere? @ Dec 30 2007, 03:46 PM) *
I think i remember reading something similar in the Gesher Hachaim in English but am not sure where my copy went.


Could be, it is basically a Midrash afterall...

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And isn't this against al tih'yu k'avadim hameshamshil es harav al menas l'kabel pras?


hmm good question, Idk perhaps he explains himself in the further chapters, or perhaps he says that it is referring to reward down here, IDK.

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And doesn't he say something similar to what you're saying here:
[.....]


Over there is saying about the person becoming closer to gd, I was talking about making a dwelling place for gd down here.
existwhere?
QUOTE(Yehudi @ Dec 31 2007, 12:38 AM) *
Could be, it is basically a Midrash afterall...

hmm good question, Idk perhaps he explains himself in the further chapters, or perhaps he says that it is referring to reward down here, IDK.

Over there is saying about the person becoming closer to gd, I was talking about making a dwelling place for gd down here.

but he says
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For a man enters the world only for this purpose - to achieve this closeness by rescuing his soul from all the deterrents to it and from all that detracts from it.
Yehudi
QUOTE(existwhere? @ Dec 31 2007, 12:51 AM) *
but he says
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For a man enters the world only for this purpose - to achieve this closeness by rescuing his soul from all the deterrents to it and from all that detracts from it.



I am not sure if that is the same thing, for in the end he is saying there that that is the means by which one becomes ultimately closer to gd, which is the point of his existence. which is (I am not sure) not the same as saying the purpose is to make a "dwelling place for gd down here" (what exactly that means is a separate issue).

As I said IDK, maybe he DOES mean the same thing so perhaps we will just have to wait and see what he says further...? (it is just interesting to contrast the various ideas...)
Moshi
QUOTE(Yehudi @ Dec 30 2007, 12:28 PM) *
while I may understand how you may fit this in with the often cited chazal "that I was created only to serve my master" (see for example kedushin 82a among other places) how does this fit or perhaps it does not fit with what is stated in chassidic text (based on the Midrash Tanchuma Noso 16 [and other places]), that the purpose of man on this world is to "make a dwelling place for the creator on the lowest level" ?


How can you "rejoice in His Presence" if He is not present in This World? Maybe you are meant to draw in the shechina, and after that you can rejoice in it?



I have another question --

Is it true that there is no purpose to life in this world alone as he states here:


And in truth, no reasoning being can believe that the purpose of man's creation relates to his station in this world. For what is a man's life in this world! Who is truly happy and content in this world? "The days of our life are seventy years, and, if exceedingly vigorous, eighty years, and their persistence is but labor and foolishness" (Psalms 90:10). How many different kinds of suffering, and sicknesses, and pains and burdens! And after all this - death! Not one in a thousand is to be found to whom the world has yielded a superabundance of gratifications and true contentment. And even such a one, though he attain to the age of one hundred years, passes and vanishes from the world.


?
Yehudi
QUOTE(Moshi @ Dec 31 2007, 12:14 PM) *
How can you "rejoice in His Presence" if He is not present in This World? Maybe you are meant to draw in the shechina, and after that you can rejoice in it?

but does he not say, that it is to rejoice with the shchinah in the world to come? but perhaps that is a possible explination

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I have another question --

Is it true that there is no purpose to life in this world alone as he states here:


And in truth, no reasoning being can believe that the purpose of man's creation relates to his station in this world. For what is a man's life in this world! Who is truly happy and content in this world? "The days of our life are seventy years, and, if exceedingly vigorous, eighty years, and their persistence is but labor and foolishness" (Psalms 90:10). How many different kinds of suffering, and sicknesses, and pains and burdens! And after all this - death! Not one in a thousand is to be found to whom the world has yielded a superabundance of gratifications and true contentment. And even such a one, though he attain to the age of one hundred years, passes and vanishes from the world.


?


I guess that in a way essentially part of the same question, because in many chassidic text it is (as mentioned above) explanied that there is a reason, i.e. that is the only way he can make a dwelling place for gd down here, furthermore I would add, that it is explained that in the time of the redemption we will see the "Mailo" of the bodies over the soul, which is why chassidic text follow the Rambans' opnion that the ultimate reward will be sould IN bodies (as opposed to the RAmbam who says it will be without them)
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