OK, let's say you have 6 people at a Shabbos meal at a little table which seats 2 people on each side, and 1 person at each head of the table.
How would you seat them?

Here's the list of people.

1) Husband
2) Wife
3) Husband's single friend - HF - (neighborhood guy who is walking in for the meal)
4) Wife's single friend A (very close friend of wife who she hasn't seen for a while, who is sleeping over and will have spent the night meal with just wife and husband.)
5) Wife's single friend B (pretty close friend of wife who she sees at work daily and shmoozes with a lot and has over for meals a lot. neighborhood girl, walking over. A and B don't know each other at all).
6) Wife's single friend B's single friend, C (who is by B for Shabbos and who the wife knows very little about).

Don't know if this should make a difference but Husband's friend and girl A know about each other and were looking into each other to possibly date but never actually met. Both know the other one will be there and are OK with it. HF may also be shayach for girl C, but probably not for B. Just throwing that in there if that would make a difference at all.

I'm interested in hearing ideas of where do you think it makes the most sense to place people, and where people would be the most comfortable. Thanks .

Now I know there are a lot of you who say who could care less just let everyone sit wherever the heck they sit themselves down. I'm asking you nicely to just not post anything if you hold of that opinion, because I'm aware of that possibility and don't need to start a thread to be told that.

Starting with head of table and going clockwise, Silent J, LTL, female friend A, male friend, female C, then female B.

Thanks for the suggestion. So the guys would be bookends. Kind of like this.

And the stud muffin gets to talk to female A or C.

Doesn't that violate the etiquette rules that
1. host and hostess sit at opposite ends and
2. married couples don't sit next to each other

I thought it would be hostess and host at opposite ends, and male guest to right of hostess, and female guest to right of host, probably friend A.
that leaves female B and female C

so going counter clockwise, host, female A, female B (or C), hostess, male guest, female C (or B )

I always sit next to wife. I didn't know Ms. Manners says thats not okay.
Either way I figure the male guest wants to speak to Mr Host since although he is a stud muffin, he needs some male interaction too. Would be hard with that arrangement.

at a dinner party? no way. you can talk to your wife all you want when the guests go home. while entertaining guests, the focus is on the guests and maintaining conversations with the guests, not with your spouse.


Could be. But a gentleman talks with the ladies.

Where's Ahavati? Isn't she the resident expert on matters manners?

Are there really etiquette rules like that? In a certain sense it makes sense for host and hostess to be somewhat separated cuz they see each other all of the time, and so they can each share the 'hosting', like each can be in charge of the two folks near them. Plus than, the host can shmooze with his single friend (who he hasn't seen in a while either) more easily. I still think Psycho's idea makes more sense.

Wait, now that I reread it though -- why would you put male guest near hostess and not near host? Unless you're just making this whole thing up to poke fun...?

A shabbas meal is a little different than a dinner party. Also it's easier to speak to someone you are facing than someone you are next to. It's more awkward to speak to the one next to you, especially if you are just meeting them.

I'm truly offended.

http://www.holidaycook.com/table-manners/seating.shtml

maybe. but we're probably talking about this table
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v336/mel...nt=untitled.jpg
so it's a little academic

Revised plan Based on Ms. Mann Melech:

Clockwise: J, Fem A, Fem C, LTL, Fem B, Stud Muffin.

Sorry. I really never heard of that before, that's how unettiqueted I am. Please forgive me, as you can see I am a little self-conscious about asking a question which may seem kind of silly to some.

I don't really think it matters, aside from putting the two males close enough to talk comfortably. The table is small and there will only be six people total, so...

But shouldn't C be near B since C is new and doesn't know anyone? Or is sitting accross just as good (or better than) sitting next to?

If this were my thread, the question would be how would you seat them to make things the most awkward for everyone.

Right that's why I feel a little dumb even thinking into this so much. But sometimes it does matter. Would you say close enough = next to each other?Why?

C is sitting right next to friendly hostess and across from fem b. What else could she want. When she starts getting comfortable all she has to do is look across and slightly to the right and there is Stud Muffin.

Hmmm I would say in this sich it doesn't really matter.

1. It is a small table so there is no real possibility of "side conversations" and everyone will be able to talk to everyone.
2. I normally wouldn't put single man next to single woman but that is unavoidable in this case.
3. There is a shaila and machloichis whether the wife should sit at the opposite head or next to the husband.
4. Presumably the male friend wants to sit next to the husband.
5. Wife's friends B and C should be next to or across from each other

What I would probably do is:

---HF-B/C
H|---------|W
----A- B/C

OR

----HF-A
H|---------|B/C
----W- B/C

OR
---------------------------------------A
H|-|HF --------------> Kitchen W |-|B
---------------------------------------C

It wouldn't matter, I have full confidence in your ability to make everyone as akward as possible no matter what the seating arrangements are.


Yes, or across. Probably not the two ends though.

Logic: We want Mr. Muffin across from Friend C so they can make eyes at each other, AND next to the host because they are the only men. Friend C should be next to B because C doesn't know anyone else. B goes next to the hostess because they are friends. C gets thrown under the bus and gets the awkward seat next to the Host. But it may work in her advantage as this gives her a chance join in the Host's conversations with Mr. Muffin. To make up for the fact that A is stuck next to a guy who we don't want to set her up with and with 2 girls she doesn't know, she gets seated next to the hostess. Also, we don't put A next to the host because of the shidduch situation may weird her out even if she wont admit and she's already staying at your house which means A and Host already used up their conversation the previous meal.

Wow -- this looks like science class!! Love the diagrams!
I agree there aren't going to be side conversations going on, it's more a matter of what'll make people most comfortable. LOL on option 3. Now option 1 seems to fit into the ettiquette thing more. But truthfully, option 2 probably makes more sense in this specific situation because than W would be closer to the kitchen.

Wow, another fancy diagram. Literally ing about Mr. Muffin - << note to self, don't call male guest that >>.



I agree that C should be near B for sure. However, it's not true that we don't want to set up A with Muffin, they actually might be shayach. Also I don't get the last line about the problem with A next to host because of weird shidduch situation. Interesting thought that the two of them might have run out of things to talk about though. OTOH, A did get to spend the whole previous meal and after shmoozing with the hostess, so she really should get the last preference in terms of seating.

Good- Then according to my first plan A is also next to Mr M, which means they can talk too.
A gets next to the host by default: We want B & C side by side, we want C across from Mr. Muffin, We want Mr. Muffin at a corner with the Host.

Another option that would work with my above rules is


But that just looks weird, like none of the single girls want to sit next to a single guy. And then A cant talk to the guy.

are there any lefties in the group?

That's too risky. What if the male guest decided that, of the four women there, he wanted the hostess?

Yeah, and the fattest chick has to sit at the head of the table...

I say skip the etiquette (husband and wife shouldn't sit next to each other??? ), and do what works best for the people you have. Nechama's last diagram is pretty good. The two guys should definitely be next to each other.

In most of the houses (and I'm not talking Uber frum or chassidim where that is a given) I've been in the wife sits opposite the Husband.....

Wow. I've never seen it that way. My parents sit next to each other, as well as both sets of grandparents, as well as my siblings...it just seems so proper to me. They're a unit, they should be next to each other.

Actually, come to think of it, my neighbors sit at opposite ends from each other. And they are the models of etiquette. So it must be so.

Just to add to the dynamic:

1) girl B is divorced.
2) stud muffin and hostess went out and hostess DUMPED stud muffin.
3) stud muffin's intent (aside from the food) is to prey on single chiks. little or no intent is for any male bonding (especially since host captured stud muffins prey).

1) So?
2) So? That was years ago.
3) Not true. You're just saying that so you can have the chiks near you and the guy on the other end of the table.

I like this idea best.

So you think it's Ok for the two guys to be somewhat far from each other.

Sure. It's a small table and they're facing each other. Just don't put a tall centerpiece in middle of the table.

One's table is a mizbei'ach, all the more so the table with which one serves guests. There is no matter too trivial to be concerned about.

Ah, Bach!

End result:

Host
Stud Muffin Hostess
Friend A Friend B
Friend C

Other intersting points:
1) Friday night, A tells hostess shes actually seeing someone now so wouldn't be available for muffin anyway.
2) C tells hosts afterward she is too young for muffin.
3) The meal was such fun and there really was only one convo going on and everyone feeling part of things.
4) B spends the whole meal talking about dating and trashing guys. At one point asks muffin 'would you do that?' and he says 'no way'. He also complained a little about girls who are jerks.
5) Otherwise, Muffin is kind of quiet the whole meal but says he had a really nice time. Host didn't shmooze all that much with him...
6) B and C stayed for a while after shmoozing with Host, hostess and A.
7) All in all, a lot of fun and we didn't have to really worry so much about the seating arrangements.