We all know that shuls have mechitzas; that’s a given. What I’m talking about is other places/events where men and women are in close proximity - is it wrong?

And I don’t mean grocery stores, with the separate hours – but kol hakovod to them, I guess.

I’m referring to my situation, as follows:

My shul has a very small kitchen and a very large Kiddush to prepare and serve in a very short amount of time. I tend to do my hishtatvus when usually men are in there, making coffees and taking cake for breakfast.

I suppose I could come back after davening to take what I need, but at that time I’m usually shlepping tables and arranging chairs and it’s just more convenient for me to take care of what I need to, before the davening.

Does it matter that I’m not young, pretty, or thin? Does it matter that some of the men are either very young or quite old?

Thank you.

sex segregation is absurd

Look who escaped from the WB water tower again.

If you are willing to accept a store having different hours for men and women (which I think is absurd), then you pretty much have to accept anything else "they" throw at you. You can't say shopping, which is an activity taking place a relatively large pubic area, should be restricted, but that puttering around in the shul kitchen with men around, a much more relaxed environment and in a more secluded area, is fine.

That's because gender segregation is fine as long as it doesn't inconvenience me. Others need to be gender segregated, but not me, because I know myself.

And I'm going to guess at least part of the issue here is men at shul in morning puttering around with their breakfasts see it as an all men's social club of sorts where women don't belong. Except maybe to serve them, but here she's not directly doing so.

I don't understand why when Muslim extremists do all these crazy things and pervert their religion, there are many people quick to speak up and say that they are not the norm and they are a perversion of the religion. But when the same thing happens with these crazy frummy Jews everyone has to be so respectful. When are people finally going to start calling it what it is?

I was in the park one shabbat this past summer, and there were three men of [certain demographic] nature and I overheard their conversation, which amounted to saying how the muslims are crazy because they can't think for themselves but they just listen to what they are told even if it doesn't make sense. I think the irony was lost on these three gentlemen.

How would you know if these gentlemen think for themselves and do what they're told even if it doesn't make sense?

I was unfairly stereotyping based on their garb and the tidbits of their conversation I overheard and due to my personal biases I was making assumptions about them.

I want to talk Tachlis here. I am assuming segregation is because of “attraction”, right?

Being that I’m not thin and I’m not young, isn’t that the main part of the equation?

I disagree with that logic, though I've heard it enough as an excuse from middle-aged women.

No. That makes no difference whatsoever. Just like an ugly woman [le-havdil] can't go to a mixed beach in a bathing suit.
That said, again, it's possible that you're conflating the halachic with the social issues. If the issue were strictly halachic, then maybe the attraction factor would come into play [even though the poskim don't differentiate between attractive and not]. But again, I'm suggesting the men don't want you there more for social reasons than halachic reasons, even if their excuse is supposedly halachic.

Good, finally. Let's get down to business. Please state your age and weight and I will decide whether or not it is appropriate for you to be in the same room with the men before davening.

No men complained … unless you count my DH who “found out” how crowded our shul kitchen can get sometimes and deemed it inappropriate. Not that he davens there or forbids me to help or anything.

Truth be told, when setting up, when we run out of something, the single girls are loathe to go in the kitchen, prompting my "I'm old and fat so it's okay if I go in" speech.

I'm 43 yrs old, 5 feet three and a quasrter inches, and I'm 120 lbs.

Interesting. So your husband thinks it's problematic and the single girls think it's problematic, but not the men.

You don't sound overweight and you aren't that old. Don't be so hard on yourself. (Even if you for some reason think you are overweight, which you are certainly not, you are going to make a lot of other women with similar sizes feel insecure.)

You are clearly insane. The ideal weight for that height is anywhere from 107 - 141.

If you're not thin then I must be obese.

Wow. I surely hope your daughter doesn't hear you calling yourself "not thin."

I’m average. She’s thin. She’s 92 lbs and 5 feet, two inches!

She's not thin, she's underweight. Ideal weight range for that height is 104 - 137 pounds.

I sure hope she got that way naturally (which I have a hard time believing) and not because she's anorexic.

Not if she has a light bone structure.

What are the actual minimum weights for people with a light bone structure?

The range I provided assumes that the lower amount is based on having a small frame. Basically, if you're over five feet if you don't weigh more than 100 pounds, you are underweight.

mosheshmeal
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Oh, she can pack it away, bli ayin horah. Believe me.

Red Hare, let me clarify this, as I'm still boggled hours later. Do you honestly think you're fat? Do you honestly not realize that you are probably thinner than most women?

There are much thinner than me ...

That didn't answer my question (and think about how many are much heavier than you). Do you honestly consider yourself fat? And when you see other women who are above a size 6, do you think they're fat? Or is a size 6 considered fat to you as well?

You are neither old nor fat. There are hot women your age, height and weight.

Ok I think you're exactly my mom's age. I'd be sure you were my mother except that you have a son. Oh and she's 5'4.