Bnei Menashe: Brown or Yellow Jews??

Well, Bnei Menashe, one of the lost tribes of Israel are back!
Do you think they are really one of them? Or because just like the fashas mura from ethiopia who come to Israel for higher standard? And Do you really belive that Jacob (patriach) had 12 sons, Do you really believe that there exist 12 Tribes of Israel? Yes, everyone will says 'yes'. But how come some of the Jews in Israel does not want to embrace the Bnei Menashe. To keep in mind, G-d of Israel will never or ever destroy all the ten tribes (G-d forbid), as they are His chosen one. So the ten tribes are just "LOST" and they are on this earth. Now, if the remaining tribes Judah, Levi and Benjamin fill the world of Jews, then how much Jews will there be in this world if all the tribes are known now!! I did not doubt about the Ethiopian Jews as well, though they are black. If the Jews are to be classified according to their colors then Bnei Menashe would be call Brown Jews or Yellow Jews. Rather, G-d had classified them with their forefather's name.

The Bnei Menashe are much more religious and orthodox than most of the Jews in IsraelThey have the three qualities which a Jews should posses. They are the son of Joseph, may be the Mashiach ben Joseph may hail from them. Some 1500 Bnei Menashe are now in Israel and most of them are
orthodox. However the Interior Minister close the door of Aliyah for them. It is interesting to know that they are not fit under Law of Return however they cannot come under Law of Entry as
they are not Gentile. I doubt if the Government will pass bill for Bnei Menashe. I am one of them, I also wrote an open letter to the Ministers of Israel. www.kuki-menashe.blogspot.com

I am one of them. You can mail me at yonathanhaokip@gmail.com

It my personal feeling that the Bnei Menashe are discriminated against by the sinners in the Israeli Gov't not for any reason other that they want to settle in Yesha and be religious. Had they been only interested in nightclubs and tel-aviv, like the Russian goyim (or even neo-nazis like many of Russian goyim) there is no question they would be welcomed by the sinners of the Israeli Gov't with open arms.

I really, really feel for you, Yonatan. It must cause you a great degree of disonance to be unjustly rejected by the very entity you want to support and embrace. I've been aware of this sort of monkey business for a long time, and is one of the many grievances I have against the Israeli state (and I have many indeed).

This law is an example of the kind of magical thinking that only an evil government could have. I don't understand how someone can't be either Jewish or gentile and thus have the worst of both worlds.

For what it's worth, if I could give you my right to the law of return as a gift I gladly would.

QFT

I feel sorry for them. They have come all the way from India and will probably be used as fodder in the settlements or army. They are harder working and more dedicated to Israel than many Haredi so perhaps they should be welcomed and the Haredi should be encouraged to wean themselves from Israels generous economic teat and get out there and get a job?

Well, perhaps the only way the Israeli state has left for the Bnei Menashe and other yidden they label as "yellow", "green" or "purple", to be mekayem the mitzvah of yishuv EY is to go to an independent Palestine... Perhaps that is why, from the point of view of Hashem, an independent Palestine is going to be created (hakol bishvil Yisroel...) Is this the kitrug the Israeli government is bringing on EY to cause so many problems? don't bet against it, I'd say...

May I suggest the parasitism of Israeli Haredim is the direct faul of the Israeli state and the EY OPS? NAMELY, CHOK TAL IS AN UNJUST PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT DISCRIMINATES AGAINST NON-ZIONIST BNEI TORAH.

If Haredim were given a PTUR (excemption) from the army, instead of a draft deferral, they would be able to legally work and many of them would work. If you think that's far fetched, may I remind you that most Chassidim outside EY work to support their families in conventional occupations? May I suggest that once EY Haredim can work, many of the yeshivish ones will choose to and sitting in Kollel indefinitely will stop being cool, so GIVING HAREDIM A PTUR AS CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS could even have a positive influence on Lakewood...

I used to think this way. But today I'm no longer convinced. It's ingrained so deep into the fiber of the society that if you are working it must be because you can't learn and it is frowned upon to put it lightly. It has become very much a begger culture. (Though there are small signs of change.) I don't know why they would need a full fleged PUTER and not simply a proper Nachal Charadi complete with shiurim.

Haredim are certainly allowed to work as it is.
I have haredi friends and those that want to work - both women and men - do.
It's those that choose not to that we are talking about.

I agree with you more than you think...

I have nothing agaist the Nachal Chareidi (it's a good idea that came 50 years too late) but people should be allowed to be conscientious objectors like in a normal country, and not just the Charedim. Perhaps people who don't want to serve in the army should be allowed to do the kind of sherut leumi that MO girls do, even if they're not frum or even if they're guys.

I'm assuming people following the law, and by law you need to have finished the army or sherut leumi or have a ptur to work.

The compulsory draft will be gone within 10 years....

I don't believe that there are any laws in place forbidding any charedim that want to work from working.
I beleive that they have exemptions from army duties because of their yeshiva studies.
However, I have haredi friends whose fathers work and whose husbands work. Plenty of haredim work.
The problem remains, however, that too many do not.

For men who didn't do army service?
You better believe it.

Then how is it that some of the haredi men I know in Israel work?
My friend's father is a teacher in a yeshiva? Her husband works in a pet store?
Another friend's husband is a photographer?

Proves nothing
With a non-chareidi boss? With a good wage? Legally? (I'm assuming no, no, no)

Freelance photography is no reiah of anything. You could be somewhere as a tourist and be a freelance photographer.

Well, that will be a very, very good development, but don't count your chickens before they hatch.

What is your point? That haredim/yeshivish men who have not served in the army in Israel are only eligible to work for other charedim, under the table, or freelance?
I will have to check with my friends on this.

That men who have not served in the army in Israel and don't have a full exemption are only eligible to work under the table (ie for other charedim for sub-standard wages) or freelance.

Hmm. I will check on this.
The fact is, Israel is in a state of war, and all adults are required to serve in the army.
If one lives in the country, one must obey its laws.
If a man wants to earn a living and that is one of the prerequisites to working, then perhaps a haredi man who would like to support his family should go ahead and serve.
If he is above 30 he will only have to do 3 months basic training and then reserve duty yearly for a month, in any case.

All off the books jobs......

Well, maybe if not everyone served in the army Israel would stop being in a state of war. I don't see anyone attacking Israel pre-emptively (not since the Yom Kippur war...)

But if the laws are wrong, in a democracy the laws should be changed, and this is a prime example. 

While this is related to secular ideological draft dodgers as opposed to the Haredim, if one is faced with the choice of serving in the occupied territories in violation international law and basic morals or dodging the draft in violation of the national law and (though today to a much lesser extent) the expectations of society, the only way out is out as in chutz laaretz.

The yearly reserve duty has bankrupted many people in business, and is, together with the universal draft one of the main reason native-born Israelis leave.

Is the blood of haredim more precious than the blood of chilonim and modern Orthodox? Why is it okay for their children to die in battle but not the haredim? Protecting the haredim, I should add.

True, the reserve duty is a hardship, but it's a hardship that is bore by every man in the society, religious (modern religious) and secular alike. It's time for the haredim to take it on as well.
OR, since Israel IS a democracy, as you say, become more active in the political process and try to get rid of the universal draft rather than simply dodging it.

NO!!!!!!!!
It's a crime that secular and modern youth should be sent to die or become injured for life in meaningless wars (like Suez, Lebanon '82 and Lebanon '06) that only protect the macho image of the army brass and the government, and it's a crime of omission that the Haredim have not beared their fair part of the burden in defending the country in the past when there was a real threat ('67 and '73).

I'm arguing for no more forced conscription for anyone, no more government financial free rides for anyone and no pet wars and occupations to demand all that military 
manpower.

couldn't agree more.

Sderot comes to mind.

And Haredim joining the army is going to stop the rocket attacks on Sderot???

I said I don't see anyone attacking Israel pre-emptively. The Palestinians are attacking Sderot because we have them under military siege/blockade from all 5 sides (northeastern border, southeastern border, Egyptian border, ocean, airspace).

They don't attack precisely because they know they can't win. If Israel didn't have a strong IDF, they would attack. As it is, they're striking at the IDF's weak point--it's considerably less effective against guerrillas.

The chareidim did not have a blanket exemption until 1977, and the deferment issue doesn't explain the whole problem. Chareidi men often stay in kollel far longer than is necessary were it solely about the army. After a certain point, and I forget the requirements, you can leave yeshiva/kollel and work even if you never joined up because a 30 year old father of six is useless and not worth training. But despite being able to leave and work legally, men don't, because kollel is a social value.

If chareidim did get a p'tor, the 'bums' would work, but it wouldn't change the structure of the society. What's needed for that is a conscious decision by chareidi leadership to make education/training an acceptable option for a larger portion of the population. As it stands, it's OK only for the 'bums' or for older men.

Is there no possibility that if a country has no grievances against Israel they are not going to attack it? And, do you really think Israel's military is a match to any other in the world? In the region?

I think that Israel's neighbours' grievances are not sufficient to lead them into unwinnable wars. That doesn't mean they don't have issues or that they wouldn't attack if they believed it were winnable.

The IDF is not the best army in the world, no, but it is the best equipped and trained army in the Middle East. This is why it hasn't faced a conventional enemy since 1973.