What is the correct forum for wishing mazal tov post partum in a case where the mother has absolutely no privacy issue about the birth being public knowledge?

member related news/announcements = member corner

Thank you for taking the time to respond.
I noticed in another thread posts are being removed for being in the wrong forum. Is it the policy to remove all mazal tov post partum posts in a case where the mother has absolutely no privacy issue about the birth being public knowledge from any forum outside of member corner?

I'll ask it a different way: If the correct forum for post partum mazal tovs is the member forum, would post partum mazal tov posts in a case where the mother has absolutely no privacy issue about the birth being public knowledge be in any way "taking away" from the member forum?

link?

not that i'm aware of.

if it wasn't posted then assumingly the case isn't one where "the mother has absolutely no privacy issue," right?

I didn't say it happened. I'm perhaps asking for the future.

oh, i thought you said you noticed it in another thread.

I'm not sure I understand your rhetorical question.But I'm talking about a case where a mother has absolutely no privacy issues about the entire h.com tzibbur knowing about a birth. In such a case, would a string of mazal tovs in a forum other than member corner be "taking away" from the member forum if the member forum is the correct place for that string of mazal tovs?You misunderstood and I misunderstood you in turn. In another thread posts are being removed from a thread because they are halachic in nature and belong in the halachah forum. I did NOT say that a string of mazal tovs appeared anywhere other than member forum. I apologize for not being more clear in my post. And I probably misunderstood you. Here is the link
http://www.hashkafah.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=964385

To be more clear, I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with moving posts from an inappropriate forum to an appropriate forum. I am asking if strings of mazal tovs will be moved from an inappropriate forum to an appropriate forum in a case where the mother has no privacy issues of the entire tzibbur knowing of the birth, should such a thing ever happen.

they're not taking away from anything because they can easily be moved to the correct forum. the only way i can see this having any effect on the board is where the posts are in a forum where the post count is affected and moved to one where posts aren't counted or the other way around.

What if the string of mazal tovs [and the implicit birth announcement] were not in a forum viewable by the entire tzibbur in a case where the mother has no privacy issues of the entire tzibbur knowing of the birth? [should such a thing ever happen]

(FTR, I have no problem with any future mazel tov of mine IY"H being posted on the main forum. Last year it took a while for a MT to be posted because no one was sure if it was ok with me, so I am saying for the record, if anyone is not sure in the future, I am giving permission.)

I also think it belongs in member corner, but ONLY the member who it is applicable to can give permission for it to be posted publicly.

That's obviously true. If anyone posts a mazal tov [and implicit birth announcement] it must always be with permission of the mother or else it's revealing personal information only known from PM's or real life [and let's all keep in mind that the posts by various members in this thread were conveniently deleted http://www.hashkafah.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=941860]. But that applies regardless of which forum the mazal tov appears anywhere on h.com. I can't imagine a scenario in which a mother has zero privacy issues with the entire tzibbur knowing of the birth, and yet mazal tovs appearing to only select members. I can only assume that in such a case, were it to ever happen, the string of mazal tovs would be immediately moved to member corner by those who self regulate, and were that NOT to happen, it would be a case of "taking away" from the member forum where the mazal tovs should appear.

In other words, if the mother is giving permission for the mazal tovs to appear, and has zero privacy issues with the entire tzibbur knowing, then the correct forum is member corner.

Were such a thing to ever happen.

correct, however if there *are* privacy issues, it might stay where it is.

for example, if i wanted to share a mazal tov with only 6 people on the site and chose to post it in the mod forum, it may not be moved to member corner if i wanted to keep it private. the same stands for anyone who wishes to keep something private via PM or otherwise.

I understand that. But I was careful to discuss only a case where the mother has no issues whatsoever with the entire tzibbur knowing and where she states such in plain view.

got it.
in such a case, it's up to the parents/baali hasimcha to post or appoint someone to post on their behalf if they want to share their simcha with the public.

So where should all the mazal tovs be posted? It's up to the parent. But if the parent has no issue with the entire tzibbur knowing, wouldn't the correct forum be member corner, and were the mazal tovs to appear elsewhere, wouldn't that be "taking away" from the member corner and the ability of the entire tzibbur to be privy to the string of mazal tovs [let alone the implicit birth announcement]?

If the mods see a birth announcement in a forum that is not accessible to all, would you feel the mods are obligated to PM or contact this member in private (which isn't possible if pm is disabled?!?) in order to find out if the member is or is not particular about whether or not the information should remain private?

i'm not understanding what part wasn't clear. if the parents (or baali hasimcha/delegates) wanted the simcha posted on h.com for the h.com public to know about their simcha, the parents (or BH/delegates) can post it in Member Corner.

if it is posted anywhere else, it is up to the parents (or BH/delegates) to repost or request it to be reposted. I don't think that just because it is posted in one place, it is ok to repost it without parental permission. For example, h.com threads that start based on OS threads where the baali hasimcha didn't necessarily want it posted on h.com for the h.com public.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond and for continuing to entertain these questions while I try to understand the policy.

Why would the announcement be posted elsewhere in the first place, were it ever to occur, other than member corner, if the member has zero privacy issues with the entire tzibbur knowing? In cases where the member has zero privacy issues, the correct forum is member corner. You agreed that's correct. If it was posted elsewhere in error because the member didn't understand the rules and which forum is correct, are you saying it can no longer be moved because the member originally wanted it in other than Member Corner so it's there to stay regardless that it's the wrong forum?

Secondly, aside from the issue of moving the string of mazal tovs, were it ever to occur, if it were posted in other than Member Corner, and if member corner were the correct place for it, then why isn't posting the mazal tovs in a forum other than member corner "taking away" from member corner?

Two points to that very valid question.
1. If a member posts a fashion post in the wrong forum, then yes, there is an obligation to move it when the fashion thread appears in the wrong forum. I "heard" that those who self regulate routinely do that. Why would that not apply to a birth announcement? Were it ever to occur.

2. Once the member herself has announced that she has no privacy issues, there is no need to contact the member if she has privacy issues. Were it ever to occur. Once the parent says there are no privacy issues, then there's no hava amina that the information should remain private.

In other words, we're talking about a special case, were it ever to occur, where an announcement is placed in the wrong forum to begin with, followed by a string of mazal tovs. If they are in the wrong forum, and it is known they are in the wrong forum because the parent herself says she has no privacy issues, then, were such a thing ever to occur, I'm asking why the mazal tovs wouldn't be moved, and if they are not, how that is not "taking away" from the member forum.

i don't know. any member (with zero privacy issues) who wanted to post their simcha for the h.com public posted it. anyone who hasn't, i'd assume they do have privacy issues with posting it in the public.

Fair assumption. So it can't happen that a string of mazal tovs would appear in a forum not accessible to all members when the parent herself has no privacy issues with the entire tzibbur knowing of the birth, correct? And were that to happen, the mazal tov posts would be immediately moved by those who self regulate, correct?

Depends...I could conceivably envision a fellow poster posting in a forum not accessible to all a mazel tov for another member because that poster knows the member doesn't have privacy issues within that forum. However, that poster may not be aware that the member doesn't have privacy issues with the whole tzibbur knowing. In that case, it is up to the member to come back and say she has no issues with the whole tzibbur knowing and allowing the mazel tov posted site-wide. Better to err on the side of caution.

And self-regulating members don't have the ability to move threads.

no, not necessarily.

But it was therefore posted in the wrong forum in error, were that ever to happen. I was told by those who self regulate when posts appear in error in the wrong forum, they are immediately moved. If there were to be an error for whatever reason, why wouldn't the posts posted in the wrong forum in error be immediately moved as those who self regulate claim to do?
Again, if a string of fashion posts appears in the wrong forum in error, surely those will be moved immediately, correct?

But you said above,

" i don't know. any member (with zero privacy issues) who wanted to post their simcha for the h.com public posted it. anyone who hasn't, i'd assume they do have privacy issues with posting it in the public."

How does it not follow that

"Fair assumption. So it can't happen that a string of mazal tovs would appear in a forum not accessible to all members when the parent herself has no privacy issues with the entire tzibbur knowing of the birth, correct? And were that to happen, the mazal tov posts would be immediately moved by those who self regulate, correct?"

A member says she has zero issues with it being public. If that's the case, the correct forum is member corner. Any other forum is in error. When posts appear in error, they are supposed to be moved.

Many times posts of these nature do have personal information and are not so easily movable.

If a poster gives explicit permission for it to be posted in member corner or chooses to do so herself, so be it. But the mods can't necessarily know that beforehand.

A post, and especially a string of posts, in the wrong forum, are supposed to be either deleted or moved. Do you deny that? Those who self regulate have repeatedly claimed that. Is that no longer true?

I understand that. But my understanding is that those who self regulate immediately contact those with the ability to move threads in order that it be done, which is why they are permitted to self regulate.

Where you err in your assumption is that the content of the posts would be the same content as would be in Member Corner. I will, for one, tell you if I had posted my own MT in a private forum, I would get into private issues, which I would not had I posted in Member Corner. I might do both, I might do neither, but what is in one place cannot necessarily be public enough for another.

But we are talking about a case where the member has no issues with the simchah being announced to the entire tzibbur. If that's the case, Member Corner is the correct forum. And I'm talking about the string of Mazal Tovs, not the subsequent discussions of the epidurals and the inevitable bashing of those who took that route. Doing both I don't have a problem with, provided the announcement in the forum not accessible to all members is specifically within the guidelines of that forum and has to do with a privacy issue specifically. If there is not privacy issue, then it's in the wrong forum and should not appear there. Unless I have been lied to that posts that appear in those forums not accessible to all members have a specific reason for appearing there davka.

What I'm getting at is that I think there should be a clarification that if someone does not have privacy issues and does not mind that the entire tzibbur knows of their simchah and good news, that the correct forum is Member Corner.
Those who post elsewhere should be aware that posting elsewhere for no good reason, [leaving aside the issues of board guidelines that are being violated and the issue of creating effectively two separate h.com's], is spitting on half the tzibbur who are denied the joy of wishing mazal tov.
In my opinion.
Of course it never happened. I'm just suggesting a sensitivity for the future.

All I'm saying is that many times a posted thread cannot be moved because there is private information within it, even though it possibly could have been written geared more to the public.

(and I'm not sure why you think there is inevitable bashing to a poster who got an epidural, but we'll leave that aside.)

The question still remains if announcements are routinely being made in other than the member corner in cases where the member has zero privacy issues with the simchah being public for the entire tzibbur.

Given the number of simchah announcements currently coming out of the woodwork in the other thread, which don't seem to be surprising anyone, I draw the conclusion that indeed the announcements are routinely being made in other than the member corner. I never did believe the claims that other forums don't take away from the main forum.
If one retorts, well, I never would have posted anywhere on h.com had "elsewhere" not existed, I don't believe that for a minute either since nobody is having a problem posting now in the open. Nor do I believe claims that posts in the wrong forum are immediately moved.

One may also assume that the announcements made in the public forum might either not exist elsewhere or if they do, they exist elsewhere in a very different format.

Since the beginning of a certain private forum, there definitely have been public postpartum announcements. There also could be reasons for wanting to delay public announcements (e.g. no linking with OS as many here have tried to do).

So please just let people be as is and be dan l'kaf zechus that everyone is doing his or her own best to do the right thing.

Did you just make a revelation about what is or isn't in a forum not accessible to all members?


And by sheer coincidence, they all wanted to delay till davka January 14.

Boy, am I relishing in the fact that I posted my past birth announcements on the main board right now. Otherwise you would be using me for your bait.

(btw, it's very different if someone posts 'I'm in labor and these contractions are so painful, should i go to hospital?" and follows up with 'the baby came out' and creates a thread to say 'I gave birth to a baby')

Not that I am aware of. All I am aware of is some insinuation you are making. And I do know that the insinuation as I understand it is not as grounded as you make it out to be. So please stop insinuating.

I B"N will bow out now to preserve the shalom. But please, enough. We know what you think already.

ohhhhhhh
is that what this is about?
again? are we back to the elitist forums argument again? seriously?
since when does every post need to be defended?