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Spot
during the rav's drasha this week at shul, the rav asked a question: why is the parasha called Bo and not Lech? if moshe has to go to pharoh, why is it "bo?" the rav never answered his question and i was wondering what the answer was.
doodlehead
QUOTE(Spot @ Jan 14 2008, 12:41 PM) *
during the rav's drasha this week at shul, the rav asked a question: why is the parasha called Bo and not Lech? if moshe has to go to pharoh, why is it "bo?" the rav never answered his question and i was wondering what the answer was.

Isnt hashem everywhere?

9
Gabbe
QUOTE(Spot @ Jan 14 2008, 12:41 PM) *
during the rav's drasha this week at shul, the rav asked a question: why is the parasha called Bo and not Lech? if moshe has to go to pharoh, why is it "bo?" the rav never answered his question and i was wondering what the answer was.

He did answer the question. The answer just made no sense.

QUOTE(doodlehead @ Jan 14 2008, 12:42 PM) *
Isnt hashem everywhere?

Yes, but what does that have to do with anything?
Spot
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 14 2008, 12:55 PM) *
He did answer the question. The answer just made no sense.

did he? what was his answer?
i remember that another (unasked question) was answered but nothing related to the original question.
artscroll
1. Is there any parashah name which does not appear in the first few words?

2. It is a made up question, a rhetorical device by which to deliver his point.
Gabbe
QUOTE(Spot @ Jan 14 2008, 01:02 PM) *
did he? what was his answer?i remember that another (unasked question) was answered but nothing related to the original question.
"Bo" is proactive.
Gabbe
QUOTE(artscroll @ Jan 14 2008, 01:11 PM) *
1. Is there any parashah name which does not appear in the first few words?

2. It is a made up question, a rhetorical device by which to deliver his point.

1. The question was more along the lines of "Why did Hashem tell Moshe to 'come' to Pharaoh rather than 'go' to Pharaoh?" He just expressed it awkwardly. Anyway, there's always Parshas Taharah. Or Bamidbar.

2. Sadly enough, no.
artscroll
Sorry, I misunderstood the post. I thought he asked why the parashah isn't called "Lekh." Now I see he was asking why Moshe was told to "bo" rather than "lekh" to the Pharaoh. I think this too is a rhetorical device, since you can spend a lifetime darshening if you second guess word choice in Chumash.
Gabbe
QUOTE(artscroll @ Jan 14 2008, 01:18 PM) *
Sorry, I misunderstood the post. I thought he asked why the parashah isn't called "Lekh." Now I see he was asking why Moshe was told to "bo" rather than "lekh" to the Pharaoh. I think this too is a rhetorical device, since you can spend a lifetime darshening if you second guess word choice in Chumash.

No, you didn't misunderstand the post. Spot misunderstood the speech, which is understandable because the question was very badly presented (The question started off as "Why is this week's parshah called Bo?" followed by a convoluted exposition of the question which was honestly difficult to follow, but boiled down to "Why did Hashem tell Moshe to 'come' rather than 'go'?" I think*.)



*The question actually reminded me of when I was younger and wondered why Yaakov had to go to sleep on Mt. Moriah if the sun "came."
artscroll
Nu, I still say this type of question is really just meant as a peg to hang the point supposedly contained in the answer on.
Gabbe
In theory yes, but I don't know if the Rabbi looked at it that way. To him it seemed to be "the" answer.
artscroll
He has to present it like he thinks it's a real question, otherwise the device doesn't work (of course he may think it's a real question).
Gabbe
QUOTE(artscroll @ Jan 14 2008, 01:35 PM) *
He has to present it like he thinks it's a real question, otherwise the device doesn't work

Indeed
QUOTE
(of course he may think it's a real question).

I think he did. He gets very impressed with these little things.
Yehudi
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 14 2008, 01:21 PM) *
No, you didn't misunderstand the post. Spot misunderstood the speech, which is understandable because the question was very badly presented (The question started off as "Why is this week's parshah called Bo?" followed by a convoluted exposition of the question which was honestly difficult to follow, but boiled down to "Why did Hashem tell Moshe to 'come' rather than 'go'?" I think*.)
*The question actually reminded me of when I was younger and wondered why Yaakov had to go to sleep on Mt. Moriah if the sun "came."


Did he give the answer from the Midrash or the Zohar or a different one?
artscroll
Now that we've established that, what's the answer?
Pinchas
Why not give the Pre-1A answer. Bo is the gematria of 3 the number of makkos in the parsha.

Or just say that the name "Lech" was already taken.

doodlehead
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 14 2008, 12:55 PM) *
Yes, but what does that have to do with anything?

Thats why he said bo not lech.

9
Gabbe
For the sake of argument, I will not ask you to elaborate on how HaShem's location has to do with anything, but instead I will ask you how you understand the phrase: lech el Paroh baboker.
existwhere?
I was just reading an answer to that question in the Peninei Sfas Emes on Shmos!

If you don't have it I will try to translate it for you.
Gabbe
QUOTE(artscroll @ Jan 14 2008, 01:50 PM) *
Now that we've established that, what's the answer?

In certain circumstances, "bo" can mean "lech." eg, the example I gave before: sunset is called bias hashemesh, not halichas hashemesh.
Kalashnikover_Rebbe
The Zohar discusses this...
doodlehead
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 14 2008, 03:34 PM) *
For the sake of argument, I will not ask you to elaborate on how HaShem's location has to do with anything, but instead I will ask you how you understand the phrase: lech el Paroh baboker.

Thats a different question. Where does it say it?

9
artscroll
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 14 2008, 05:59 PM) *
In certain circumstances, "bo" can mean "lech." eg, the example I gave before: sunset is called bias hashemesh, not halichas hashemesh.

Not what's the answer, I meant what was his answer?
existwhere?
QUOTE(Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Jan 14 2008, 11:40 PM) *
The Zohar discusses this...

And says...?
Yehudi
QUOTE(existwhere? @ Jan 15 2008, 06:47 PM) *
And says...?


QUOTE(Zohar vol.2 34a)
Rabbi Shimon said: Now it is proper to reveal secrets that are attached above and below. It is written: "Come to Pharaoh," but it should have said 'Go to Pharaoh'. What is the meaning of "Come"?

He brought him in to the innermost rooms, to a very powerful Tanin, from which many levels evolve and come down. And what was it? It was the secret of the great serpent. Moses was afraid and approached only the rivers that were at his grade. But he feared THE SERPENT itself, and did not approach because he saw that it was rooted in high sources. When the Holy One, blessed be He, saw that Moses was afraid and that other appointed messengers above could not approach him, the Holy One, blessed be He, said: "Behold, I am against you, Pharaoh, king of Egypt, the great crocodile that couches in the midst of his streams" (Yechezkel 29:3). The Holy One, blessed be He, had to wage war with him and no other. He said, "I am Hashem." . They explained the secret of the wisdom of, "the great Tanin that couches in the midst of his streams," to those scholars of jurisprudence, who recognize the secret of their Master.
existwhere?
QUOTE(Yehudi @ Jan 15 2008, 06:53 PM) *

Thank you.

(That went right over my head.)
Yehudi
QUOTE(existwhere? @ Jan 15 2008, 07:17 PM) *
Thank you.

(That went right over my head.)


hmm would this "version" help"?

QUOTE
from Parsha in depth- chabad.org
Rabbi Simeon [bar Yochai] continued: It is now fitting to reveal mysteries connected with that which is above and that which is below. Why is it written, "Come in to Pharaoh"? Ought it not rather to have said, "Go to Pharaoh"? It is to indicate that G-d brought Moses into a chamber within a chamber, into the abode of the supernal mighty serpent that is the soul of Egypt, from whom many lesser serpents emanate. Moses was afraid to approach him, because his roots are in supernal regions, and he only approached his subsidiary streams. When G-d saw that Moses feared the serpent, He said, "Come in to Pharaoh."
existwhere?
QUOTE(Yehudi @ Jan 15 2008, 07:30 PM) *
hmm would this "version" help"?

Thanks, but no.

In the Peninei Sfas Emes, this same Zohar is brought down.
(my awful and inadequate approximation follows:)


Hashem says, "Ki Ani hichbadti es libo"
HaShem Himself went into Pharaoh's heart, so to speak.
<above-quoted Zohar>
The Godly source of Pharaoh and his wicked kingdom was very high, therefore it was able to fall very low. And that's why Moshe had to go to very high levels to understand the essence of its root.
Yechezkel prophesied about "Paroh king of mitzrayim, the big seaserpent (tanim) that sits in its waters, saying "Mine is this river and I made it." Pharaoh's arrogance went so far that he thought he was the source of his own strength. The Tanin was a symbol of material grandiosity which is the antithesis of Godliness, and with its great strength can potentially destroy the world, and Pharaoh represents this strength.
Pinchas
QUOTE(Yehudi @ Jan 16 2008, 02:30 AM) *
hmm would this "version" help"?



QUOTE(existwhere? @ Jan 16 2008, 03:36 AM) *
Thanks, but no.

In the Peninei Sfas Emes, this same Zohar is brought down.


Thanks Yehudi and existwhere? for clearing this up!
Gabbe
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 14 2008, 05:59 PM) *
In certain circumstances, "bo" can mean "lech." eg, the example I gave before: sunset is called bias hashemesh, not halichas hashemesh.

Maybe this is an Egyptianism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_the_Dead
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