High Court slams 'kosher' bus lines for ultra-Orthodox

Justices of the High Court of Justice spoke out strongly against the ‘kosher’ bus lines serving the haredi community during deliberations on a petition against them Monday.

The High Court panel, composed of Justice Elyakim Rubenstein, Justice Salem Jubran, and Justice Yoram Dantziger, began its deliberation by noting that “even if haredi lines are allowed to operate, the clothing and gender-separation restrictions in play on them cannot be imposed on people who object to them.”

The justices also noted that a solution to continual harassment problems on these ‘kosher lines’ must also be found, be it by training drivers to defend passengers, or by clearly designating the buses in question as ‘kosher’.

<snip>

Justice Rubenstein noted that “it is inconceivable for a driver not to allow a woman on a bus because she is wearing pants and is not dressed modestly enough.” He suggested that the Transportation Ministry investigate the matter, a compromise to which the petitioners agreed.

The petitioners furthermore requested that the court examine whether these ‘kosher’ bus lines are an actual necessity for the haredi community. If these lines are ultimately launched, they asked the court to ensure that those objecting to gender-separation requirements are also accommodated.

link

***
ms
.

YAY! I hope they are deemed unlawful and charedim get their own durned buses if they so desire.

I want an Egged bus for my birthday.

Egged or egged?

The chareidim need to stop acting like they own the place. Israel is a place for all Jews not just the frum ones. They are acting idiotic. Why should they be allowed to have taxpayer funded buses with discriminatory practices?

That you, Bird?

mosheshmeal
.

Egged.

Israel, yes. But Eretz Yisrael?

[/inflammatory]

It's Israel until Moshiach comes.

Hah!

mosheshmeal
.

Or the stupid gov gives it a way to the Palestinians.

It is the land of my forefathers. It is Eretz Yisrael and will always be Eretz Yisrael and no government, Israeli or Palestinian, will make it anything else.

Israel is a state. Eretz Yisrael is the land.

1. Egged is not a government owned corporation. It is FOR profit.
2. Egged has a monopoly on the areas it serves but is not government funded
3. The Charedim TRIED making their own buses and egged sued them and had them shut down, and in response promised to make more mehaderin lines.

This is STRICTLY commercial. Egged wants to make money. Charedim take the bus a lot, so they want to cater to that demographic, not the shiksas in Tel Aviv who haven't been on a bus in years......

What about the frum, erliche yiddishe Mamas riding the bus, minding their own damned business?

I'll just censor the rest of what I really want to say.

1. There are obviously less of them than the alternative or Egged wouldn't be doing this...
2. Why can't they mind their own damned business in the Ezras Nashim???

Because they don't want to puke all over the freakin "ezras nashim".

Thats why I don't post anymore. Sick.

Well even for profit businesses are not allowed to discriminate against groups of people here in the US and I think that makes sense. An overbearing dress code is discrimination although a "no shorts or sleeveless shirts" policy sounds fine to me.

It sounds like the chareidim should make their own bus line and make their own rules. What grounds did Egged successfully sue them on? Breaking up their monopoly? Well boo hoo! And you think Israel isn't screwed up?

Yes, Egged is a government protected monopoly in the areas where it serves. In the past few years Israel has opened up the market to several other bus companies, but only one per location. (this is what they call privatization and competition in Israel)

So unless the law changes the Charedim CANNOT legally set up their own bus service on Egged's routes, and several past attempts have failed...

Total bull. The MTA is a bloated nightmare. Government protected monopolies are the worst kind.

The solution is quite simple actually and Monsey Tours has been doing in for years. Don't separate the bus front to back, separate it side to side with a mechitza right down the middle.

In any event Bird is right and the whole thing is a stupidity created by people pretending to be yeari shamayim. A bus is a public place and women are allowed be there as much as they are allowed to be on the street. If you don't want to see a woman don't go outside.

Is there any halachik purpose in having 'mehadrin' busses?

9

Yes, men and woman are required to be divided when davening.

I asked about busses.

9

Maybe they want to daven on the busses?

They dont.

9

You sure?

Then why else would they need it?

Or they want to be able to ask the driver a question without shouting it across the bus, or shlepping all the kids on the bus alone while the father sits comfortably up front is just too difficult to manage...

Yes.


That was my question.

9

Oh. I guess that they do want to daven then.

I know they dont.

9

Well maybe they have plans to start one day.

You think so?

9

It's a stretch, I'll admit, but it would explain the halachic need for this.

Except that when the men and women get up, they touch each other through the mechitza because they can't see and they're sharing the aisle.

Especially with these stupid new busses that are so gosh darned low on the ground that you feel every pebble that you drive over, it is NOT a smooth ride by a long shot. I have been on (non-mehadrin) busses at the back where kids have thrown up. It is NOT a pleasant sight (or smell) and to force people to sit there is beyond me. It especially makes me mad when there are 2 men on the bus and the back is overstuffed with women standing because they can't sit at the front. I agree.That's not such a terrible idea. My friend had to pay money once when she got on the bus (as opposed to using a punch) and she felt a LOT more stupid getting on at the back and walking to the front then getting on at the front and walking through once. and the second 1/2 is also true. Sheesh. The aisle on these busses are much wider then on a coach bus. There are a total of about 25 seats on the bus with a HUGE aisle.

החדש אסור מן התורה

forget about stam touching, imagine a man and a woman, both bigger than size 6, trying to get through at the same time?

Which is fine when the 2 is in Har Nof, but when it starts out from the kotel, could you imagine the added crush with a mechitza down the middle?

It works for Monsey Tours - Williamsburg to New Square - 12 times a day!

I've taken that bus dozens of times, lets just say it doesnt...


9

True.



Yes. I went on Sharmash once (I think, one of the ones that goes to the mountains when I was there for the summer) and the entire aisle was on the men's side, so you couldn't always know there was someone on the other side until you walked right into them.

Really? Why not?


How about those double decker buses they used to have here? Let the men go upstairs and the woman downstairs?

It gets really crowded, you cant even see that you just knocked down an old lady cuz of the mechitza, none of the females know when a huge guy is gonna try walking down to even try getting out of the way. Its basically chaotic, and not a very tznuis situation.

They have those?

9

I don't know that all that is due to the mechitza.



Used to. The 480 used to be a double decker (top level was indoor). It was really cool. Wonder why they stopped.

Its due to a instant temporary eyesight loss when people travel on monsey tours busses? Have you ever traveled on them during rush hour?

It sounds cool. Maybe because of security problems?


9

I heard b/c of weight, they were too heavy for the highway. They were fun, though.



erev shabbos.

No. I thought it was more due to the type of people who take those buses...

Did you ever see the (winter) City Tour bus? That's what they used to be, these just went to Tel Aviv and I don't know where else. We used to take to Tel Aviv all the time when I was 6. It was so much fun to sit on the top in the front seats and it was like the bus was driving itself.

Exactly!

such memories...oh, to be 6 again...