Kiryat Arba rabbi: Don't sell mezuzahs to Reform Jews

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3496982,00.html


Rabbi Dov Lior, chief rabbi of the West Bank town Kiryat Arba, continues to take a hard line against Reform Jews. In the past, the rabbi had issued a religious ruling stating that one should not go into a Reform synagogue, nor attend any events sponsored or held by the Reform Movement.

On Monday, however, the rabbi issued an even harsher edict, mandating that sofrei stam, or Jewish scribes, should not sell Torah scrolls, tefilin or mezuzahs to Reform Jews.



Rabbi Lior issued this edict on an internet forum belonging to the Beit El Yeshiva. A sofer stam wrote the rabbi and told him that that he was asked to fix a Torah scroll for, and sell mezuzahs and tefilin to, a Reform Jewish congregation.







i wonder if this rabbi know about the haredim that are using threats, voilence, beating up women who don't follow thier sexist rules, and intimidation to impose thier man made taliban rules on other people? when will this self appointed rabbi address the problem of haredim molesting children, breaking the law, telling people that learning a trade is a sin, etc typical of the "torah observant orthodox types" think they are holier than everybody else while ignoring worst sins within thier communities and busy worshipping and kissing the rear ends of thier currupt power hungry rabbis

R' Dov Lior isn't Haredi.
And not entering Reform Temples is hardly a hard line position.

I was under the impression that it was universally accepted as forbidden.
Isn't there a teshuva from RMF on this?

It's not. What you are saying is absurd.

What about a church? Also absurd?

Yes, there are a number of teshuvot on this, but it's one thing to say it's forbidden to daven in non-O synagogue, and other to say it's forbidden to enter the sanctuary even during non-praying times, and it's another thing to say it's forbidden to enter the building, either to vote in a social hall or to rent classroom space for your yeshivah.

a christian church has nothing in common with a reform synagogue

Blah. It's definitely hard line. We're not talking about davening at the Reform Temple on Yom Kippur. We're not even talking about eating at their catering hall (which probably uses caterers with Orthodox hashgachah anyway) We're only saying to walk into the building for a legitimate purpose.
It's a very hard line position.
About the mezuzos, I presume that at the going cost of mezuzos most sofrim will be somech on Chabad or Aish HaTorah or any other Kiruv organization to sell mezuzos to Reform Jews. When it all comes down to it, a sofer is trying to make a living, not to do a crusade against Reform Judaism. And if they can do some kiruv rechokim while making money, it's even better, no?
This guy is an idiot, if only by living in Kiryat Arba...

Having attended services in both I can tell you that you are 100% wrong, the reform synagogue is closer to the church that to a real synagogue.

Eli

Indeed. They "reek of h3ll."

reform jews do not worship Jesus nor follow christianity. and i can find similarities between orthodox jews and christians since they both treat thier religious leaders as devineaccording to a self appointed rabbi who thinks God anointed him

B.S.

Well is is a fact that the original deformed service and temple was based on the Protestant church at the time, complete with Organ and women in the balcony....

And upon what, pray tell, do you base that highly-intelligent, well-thought-out and articulately-stated retort?

mosheshmeal
.

True, but if they give a painting class or a French class you want to take  at a Reform temple only a fanatic would say you can't go.

A reform temple and a lutheran church are very similar. I'd go as far as saying that a chassidishe shtiebel, a reform temple, a mosque and a shinto shrine have a lot in common all being public places of worship, but the similarity between german reform judaism and german protestant christianity goes beyond that...

Outside the "sanctuary" is (often) different. One might be allowed to go to a church under such circumstances as well....

right. there are teshuvot dealing with voting in a church social hall for instance.

Why would they use an Orthodox caterer? And why would the caterer agree? It would mean limiting who goes into the kitchen, what they do in there, what can be on the menu. Not to mention the extra expenses such as 2 sets of dishes and buying kosher meat. Why do all that if 1. no one cares, and 2. the people are going to be offended that they can't just go into kitchen and whip something up.

I agree completely about it be stupid to limit a sofer's customer base. Besides, if a Reform Jew wants to buy a kosher mezuza, she/he should be encouraged to do this mitzvah.

No. According to "former Sephardi Chief Rabbi of Israel Mordechai Eliyahu."

I don't know what you mean by Orthodox caterer, but they use Kosher caterers in the overwhelming majority of Reform and all Conservative synagogues, the vast majority of which have Orthodox supervision (there are no Reform Kosher supervisions, and Conservative ones a few and far between.)

That is certainly not the case in the places in which I've lived.

Smicha is not carte blanche to do or say any ridiculous thing. I'm sure RME would not accept the idea of not selling mezuzos to Reform Jews.

This rabbit's Rabbanut Smicha rubber stamps his idiotic and blind hatred the same way Steve Greenberg's YU smicha rubber stamps his lifestyle. (ETA: There's plenty of legitimate reasons to critique Reform Judaism, but barring them from procuring mezuzos for their homes is being a mesis umediach for sinas chinam, and beyond halacha there's nothing wrong with being gay, but you can't simultaneously honestly call yourself Orthodox and live a gay lifestyle)

The question was asked in Israel. All the shuls I've been at (for davening or simchas) don't have their own catering halls, the caterers bring in dishes and hotplates (or park a truck outside with the equipment they need), so the kashrut of the kitchen shouldn't be a problem for a kosher caterer.

Just as the original question shows us that there are Reform Jews who want Sifrei Torah, tefillin and mezuzot, there are probably Reform Jews who want kosher food at their simchas. Perhaps they even keep kosher at home (even if not everyone would eat there), or maybe they feel that a religious function should be kosher, or have more observant guests than themselves (clearly not people who follow rulings that one may not go there at all, perhaps they davened elsewhere and only came for the kiddush, or it's an evening reception that doesn't involve davening, or they're more stringent about kosher food than where they daven).

In my seminary's early days, they got a heter to hold classes in the church hall next door.

(Am I giving myself away..? )

Everyone realized that, notwithstanding these 'shock' headlines, what R'Dov Lior shlita actually said is that we shouldn't sell mezuzot to Reform "temples" or organizations, not that we shouldn't sell them to individual (Reform) Jews, right?

Did you go to the same seminary as Bluelaptop?

Having been to a reform service.

so reform judaism is evil because some orthodox rabbi said so?

Not that I know of, but I don't know which seminary she went to...Exactly.

I understood the comment to be that a typical meal in a Reform synagogue would be catered kosher. Certainly, an occasional simcha might be catered kosher (as are simchas in nonkosher hotels), but a typical kiddush or community meal would not be kosher in most Reform and a significant number of Conservative synagogues.

As far as Reform Jews (or any Jews) keeping mitzvahs, I'm all for it. I think it's great if any Jew decides to keep kosher or have a mezuzah.

No. Because you said it's not!