DH is out of town as you know, so I took DD out for dinner in Crown Heights, for a treat. (It was a sit down restaurant.)

As I was paying the bill, I noticed a 13% gratuity added to the bill and I asked what that was for... I told the manager that if it's a tip, it's too low. He gave me a look like I was a Martain and said he never had a patron say that before !!!! He said that people regularly leave a dollar or 2 on the table and think that's great.

Heck, I'm cheap, but not on other people's chesbon. If you can't afford to eat out, stay home. (I don't even go out every year for that reason !!!!!)

So I assume he added this to the bill for everyone because people weren't tipping properly (read enough).

Isn't a 20% tip the correct amount to leave, unless you had fabulous service and want to leave more? Or if you're a big party and then more is expected?

I thinik the tip amount should reflect on the kind of service received. I was told 15% if satisfied

I don't think it is about being cheap. It is about not wasting money. I think a 10% tip is more than generous when you get good service. I think a forced gratuity is horrible/sick, and if I ever see that on a bill I will immediately swear to never eat there again.

Why waiters and establishments assume they are worth a ton of money for getting my order correct, carrying food to my table, and pouring water into my glass I will never understand. I think it's either plain stupidity or just greed.

I also think 15% is fair assuming the service was up to par. If it is forced, then it is not gratuity, it's a fee. It's not right for the restaurant to tack on a mandatory sitting fee. That being said, many frum Jews are cheap, so it might be a necessity at that restaurant becuase of history.

I think I usually see 18% automatically added.

I think the standard tip is 10% for average service and 15% for good service. If you want to tip more for outstanding service, it's your perogative, but 20% is NOT the standard. I used to leave a minimum of $3 on the table (more than 10% of my bill) because I felt leaving anything less was a kind of slap in the face to a server who had done a decent or good job. Now I'm far more broke, so I just chip in a percentage of the bill and let my companions overtip.

Are you forgetting that waiters make their money in tips, not wages? The law allows the establishment to pay them far below minimum wage because the assumption is that they will make the money up in whatever tips they receive. It's not stupidity or greed; it is understood that when you go out to eat, you are paying for that waiter's service in addition to the cook's and establishment's.

I always heard that 15% was the norm not 20%

The standard waiters wage is $10 an hour plus tips, So, in order to get a good tip from me, the waiter must earn it.

There were times when I did not leave a tip, especially if I wait more then 20 minutes for my food, And there are times when i leave $50 tips.

For example, the Sushi Guy in Purple pear in Monsey, always ads some extra sushi to my order, and recommends rolls based on my previous orders....Based on the fact that he remembers what I like and how i like it...I tip him well...Usually a $10er does it.

Theres a waitress in Purple pear who once got a $100 tip just for making sure me and my party of 2 were well fed and taken care off. but the next time i came she forgot one of my dishes....and she didn't get a tip at all.

Terrible law. And it's the restaurant's fault if they do not fully disclose a mandatory fee (gratuity) before the meal.

Uhhh, where do you get that figure from? Most wait staff are paid UNDER the minimum wage, with the understanding that they will make this up in tips. I don't know where you dine, but I have a hard time imagining that the majority of people who are serving you are making $10 an hour PLUS tips. Some bartenders don't even make that.


A twenty minute wait for your food (which is completely reasonable, mind you) is frequently the fault of the kitchen, not your wait staff. But way to punish them anyways. I'm sure the servers appreciate your showboating, but perhaps you should aim for a happy, tempered medium.

you're an idiot

True. Don't you love putting lunches on "business Expense"

Well, I guess we don't often frequent the same establishments. (I shouldn't have used the term standard - It's just what i have come across most frequently)


A 20 minute wait in dairy restaurants is a bit long by my books, I was obviously not talking about a packed restaurant or lunch hour, even 20 covers in one hour is alot.
.

Thank you, I'll be sure to mention it to my therapist.



I am a very firm believer in the "Work for your money" policy, many places hire teenagers and illegal immegrents to serve the customers and I can appreciate that...But you gotta earn your rent money

No I don't have to do that sort of thing thankfully.

Gratuity that's forced on you defies the purpose of it. It's not a tip, it's just a charge bordering on fraudulent. And while waiters and waitresses in nicer joint in Manhattan are indeed hired with an expectation that tips will make a good chunk of their compensation, that's not the case in the more "ethnic" eateries in the outer borought - they get paid what they get paid, and tips are as abundant as lottery winnings.

I completely disagree. It is not understood that I am paying for the waiter's service when I go out to eat. In fact the exact opposite. If you have a restaurant and you want it to be a good one, and in order to get people to come to your restaurant you choose to offer a waiter service, than that is your choice and that is a business expense of yours. That falls on you to pay them. The tips are just extra. If you choose to not pay them assuming they will make it up on tips, well than that just makes you a lousy employer and a cheapskate.

I don't know where everyone gets this idea that the burden of paying for waiter service falls on the customer. If I go to the store or the bank, do I pay the teller or cashier for using their "service"? Of course not. They are employees of the store or bank. If I call AT&T b/c I have a question about my service, do I pay a service fee? Of course not. If you are a company that wants business you offer service as well as product. Why should the food business be any different? It's ludicrious, and I think it is only b/c the masses are a bunch of ignorant sheep, that they choose to go along with this system instead of putting the burden where it belongs on the employer.

Speaking as a former waitress, I agree. My life would have been better if my boss had raised prices and paid the staff a decent wage rather than relying on customers to supplement our wages. But that's not the way the industry works, which makes it hard on waiters and waitresses. I once got audited because the IRS thought I was under reporting my tips. I had to bring a letter from my boss verifying that I worked a shift that attracted lousy tippers. I have never left less than 15% and usually tip 20. Slow service is often the fault of the kitchen and I see know need to take it out on the waitress.

I think it is a cop out to point to the "industry" as a reason for not paying your employees properly.

I agree that it probably does suck for the waiters and waitresses to be in that situation. My response to that would be to find a better restaurant that pays better, find a restaurant that has rich customer or business customers (that can expense everything) where they don't mind throwing around 15% to 20% tips for the fun of it. Either that or find a different type of job.

I think to expect the customers to pick up the "tab" for the employer is wrong. I find it horrible that if you choose to "only" tip 10% you are somehow doing something wrong. It is called a tip or gratuity for a reason. It is not a fee. It is something that you choose to give b/c you feel somebody did an extra special something for you. They were quick or courteous or whatever. Not that you feel obligated to give it b/c the employer is cheaping out on paying it's employees.

I agree with everything Shuli said.

International, you make your dining experience sound like you're a king who must be waited on in the manner of royalty. Waiters have a hard job and can't be expected to live up to your high expectations. Why work your @$$ off for someone who has such a low opinion of you? I think that waiting is one of the hardest jobs - physically and mentally. Plus, you're hardly paid and have to wait on people like you that think the waiter is a common serf that should be rewarded like a dog that performs a clever trick.

I can understand being upset if the wait-staff is rude. However, it's not their fault if the food takes awhile to come out. You also shouldn't be so unforgiving if they make a mistake with your order. People make mistakes, it's human nature.

To answer the OP, first off, it's nice that you even asked if it's not too low! Like the guy said, not many people would say that.

In my experience, tip should be a minimum of 15%, now it's usually 18%, with a max of 20%.

I don't tip based on service, unless it was completely unacceptable. I've eaten in restaurants where service is slow, food isn't great, etc - and I still tip well. It's not the waiters fault if the steak is rubbery, or if the kitchen is slow...

There's basically two reasons why to give a good tip: 1. The waitress/waiter is trying hard and they really deserve it. 2. You constantly go to the same restaurant and you try to establish rapport/special privileges.

I've generally heard that in North America a tip would be 15%, except for waiters/waitresses that are rude or unattentive (10% or even less depending on how bad they are), exceptional service (20%), or consistent exceptional service at a restaurant you go to on a regular basis (25%~30%).

There are countries where gratuity is always included, or waiters make enough money from their wages and tips are usually not given (and the prices reflect this).

The law also requires employers to make up the difference if their employee's wages + tips is less than minimum wage.

In many US cities, minimum wage is often not enough for a someone to support themselves.

Then they should find a better-paying job.

As a customer, my obligation is not to make sure the waiter is paid minimum wage. That is his employer's obligation.

... like it's that easy...


If the waitress/waiter follows the social contract by giving you friendly, courteous, efficient service then you have the moral obligation to follow the social contract and tip according to what is customary locally, which in the US would be 15%~20%.

As an individual who tries to be courteous and gracious and because I know it is expected in the society within which I reside, I tip commensurate with the service received - approximately 15% for basic service, more for better service, less for inexcusably poor service. That's because I'm a gracious and courteous individual, not because I think I have any sort of financial obligation, whatsoever, to my server. I have a moral obligation to be kind and courteous and polite to my server.

In the U.S. I always heard that 15% was considered a standard tip for decent/good service. Some people say 15-20%.

If the service is poor, I will give a bit less than 15%. Anything less than 15% shows your dissatisfaction, I believe.
If I was really shocked at the poor level of service, I would probably say something to either the waiter or the manager rather than just leave little or no money on the table.

If it's a place I like and plan to go often, I try to leave a bit more than 15% to establish a good rapport with the staff.