Bitter
Jan 31 2008, 12:29 PM
I recently saw two different instances of Jews being portrayed oddly in (pop) culture.
One was in the young adult novel "Catherine, Called Birdy" by Karen Cushman. The book is set in the year 1260, in England. The protagonist, the daughter of a minor knight, has some jews stop in the manor house on their way out of the country, since they've just been expelled from Britain for being the Devil's kinfolk or something. She muses that the expulsion must be because of other jews, since the ones she sees are ordinary looking, and the grandma even talks to the kids in the English language instead of the Jewish one that "sounds like horse talk", so that Catherine will understand the story.
Before the Jews move on, the woman tells Catherine that (paraphrased) "In heaven, they won't ask why you weren't Perkin, or your mother. They will ask why you weren't Catherine." Later the girl interprets this to mean that wherever she goes, she will never be able to leave herself.
Pop Quiz: Why did I find this odd?
The other instance was in the movie "Sydney White" starring the (jewish) model for jewish girls everywhere, Amanda Bynes. She goes to college, and becomes an advocate for the misfits, against the greek-lettered elites. The misfits include the gays, goths, nerds, and of course, jews. The jews in this college, interestingly, are all male, dress in chassidic garb, with wild curly peyos, and make l'chaims on wine, (after the bracha, before they drink.) Then, naturally, they sing "siman tov umazal tov" and dance with girls. (It could have been worse. They could have sung hava nagila)
It was too good natured to be offensive, but the undiluted lack of interest in the tiniest bit of accuracy is a bit demeaning.
What other portrayals/stereotypes of jews are there in contemporary movies/books?
artscroll
Jan 31 2008, 12:37 PM
QUOTE
Pop Quiz: Why did I find this odd?
על תקרא כתרין אלא זישא
Bitter
Jan 31 2008, 12:42 PM
QUOTE (artscroll @ Jan 31 2008, 12:37 PM)

על תקרא כתרין אלא זישא
Yes, but more importantly, I am not sure if this populist hassidic mussar was common in the year 1260.
Bitter
Jan 31 2008, 12:46 PM
QUOTE (Bitter @ Jan 31 2008, 12:29 PM)

What other portrayals/stereotypes of jews are there in contemporary movies/books?
Oh, yes, another one:
In the movie "Chasing Liberty" or maybe "First Daughter" (they're the same thing except one has Jeremy Piven in it) Piven's Character, a jewsih secret service agent in the process of falling in love with Agent Morales (a sefardi perhaps?) looks out at a majestic view off a bridge, and with great (mock) emotion, makes a shehechayanu. Followed by lots of other random hebrew.
artscroll
Jan 31 2008, 12:51 PM
QUOTE (Bitter @ Jan 31 2008, 12:42 PM)

Yes, but more importantly, I am not sure if this populist hassidic mussar was common in the year 1260.
It's the kind of thing which I could imagine someone independently saying. However, the idea of going to Heaven and being judged for being all that you could be, or not, is foreign to medieval Christian theology. I can't imagine, even as a populist musing, that this would have occurred to anyone.
Bitter
Jan 31 2008, 12:57 PM
QUOTE (artscroll @ Jan 31 2008, 12:51 PM)

It's the kind of thing which I could imagine someone independently saying. However, the idea of going to Heaven and being judged for being all that you could be, or not, is foreign to medieval Christian theology. I can't imagine, even as a populist musing, that this would have occurred to anyone.
In the book, it occured to a jew. What was the medieval christian view of heaven/judgement?
artscroll
Jan 31 2008, 01:23 PM
QUOTE (Bitter @ Jan 31 2008, 12:57 PM)

In the book, it occured to a jew. What was the medieval christian view of heaven/judgement?
Damnation for unbelievers and salvation for believers.
Bezalel99
Feb 4 2008, 05:37 PM
House M.D. (Fox, Tuesday, Feb. 5th, 9:00 p.m.):
A former music producer who had recently---and suddenly---converted to Hasidic Judaism collapses at her wedding, and House suspects that the reasons behind her sudden conversion might also have something to do with her mysterious illness.
HOUSE TREATS A NEWLY-CONVERTED HASIDIC JEWISH WOMAN AFTER SHE COLLAPSES AT HER OWN WEDDING
House and the team encounter a woman admitted to Princeton-Plainsboro after she collapsed at her wedding. Her test results come up negative for a variety of common diseases, which leads the team to suspect foul play. When they discover the woman had been a music producer living in the fast lane until she converted to Hasidic Judaism, House insists that people do not change so easily, and that her seemingly rash decision may have something to do with an underlying condition. The woman’s husband insists that House treat his wife for her illness, rather than for her past, but she continues to fall dangerously ill. The team must run through all possible diagnoses without disturbing her newly found religious beliefs before it is too late.
existwhere?
Feb 4 2008, 07:17 PM
QUOTE (Bezalel99 @ Feb 4 2008, 05:37 PM)

House M.D. (Fox, Tuesday, Feb. 5th, 9:00 p.m.):
A former music producer who had recently---and suddenly---converted to Hasidic Judaism collapses at her wedding, and House suspects that the reasons behind her sudden conversion might also have something to do with her mysterious illness.
link?
Bezalel99
Feb 4 2008, 10:36 PM
QUOTE (existwhere? @ Feb 4 2008, 07:17 PM)

link?
You doubt my ability to accurately report the show?
http://www.fox.com/schedule/showinfo/house/hou_412.htm
existwhere?
Feb 4 2008, 10:41 PM
QUOTE (Bezalel99 @ Feb 4 2008, 10:36 PM)

Isn't Fox a news service, or is it a fiction show?
Bezalel99
Feb 4 2008, 10:52 PM
QUOTE (existwhere? @ Feb 4 2008, 10:41 PM)

Isn't Fox a news service, or is it a fiction show?
House is a fictional medical drama that is broadcast on the over-the-air Fox TV entertainment channel, which is different from the cable Fox News channel.
existwhere?
Feb 4 2008, 11:11 PM
QUOTE (Bezalel99 @ Feb 4 2008, 10:52 PM)

House is a fictional medical drama that is broadcast on the over-the-air Fox TV entertainment channel, which is different from the cable Fox News channel.
Thanks.
Nechama
Feb 5 2008, 01:17 PM
Bezalel, you beat me to posting about House. We'll have to pick it apart tomorrow.
Bezalel99
Feb 6 2008, 01:11 PM
Nu, Nechama, what did you think?
Other than the usual religion-bashing, I didn't think it was bad.
The advertisements called her a convert, but she was apparently a ba'alat tshuva, which makes more sense since the actress had Jewish features.
There were many factual errors, but that's to be expected from non-frum writers. How many factual errors did you see?
Does urinating blood make a woman niddah? The husband put his hand on her forehead in the hospital after that. (Which was also a public display of affection, since a doctor was there.)
There were a lot of kipot serugot at the hasidic wedding, but I guess there are mixed crowds in real life, so that might not even be an error.
The strangest was that she wanted to postpone her surgery from Friday afternoon to Friday night, so that she could have a bit of a Shabbos experience with her husband. I've heard of people trying to avoid surgeries on Shabbos, but to try to postpone one so that it falls on Shabbos seems unlikely. Also, the husband was lighting candles while it was supposedly dark outside on a Friday night, which obviously would have been mechalel Shabbos. (And I don't think hospitals allow open flames, since they have oxygen nearby.)
Bitter
Feb 6 2008, 01:42 PM
QUOTE (Bezalel99 @ Feb 6 2008, 01:11 PM)

Nu, Nechama, what did you think?
Other than the usual religion-bashing, I didn't think it was bad.
The advertisements called her a convert, but she was apparently a ba'alat tshuva, which makes more sense since the actress had Jewish features.
There were many factual errors, but that's to be expected from non-frum writers. How many factual errors did you see?
Does urinating blood make a woman niddah? The husband put his head on her forehead in the hospital after that. (Which was also a public display of affection, since a doctor was there.)
There were a lot of kipot serugot at the hasidic wedding, but I guess there are mixed crowds in real life, so that might not even be an error.
The strangest was that she wanted to postpone her surgery from Friday afternoon to Friday night, so that she could have a bit of a Shabbos experience with her husband. I've heard of people trying to avoid surgeries on Shabbos, but to try to postpone one so that it falls on Shabbos seems unlikely. Also, the husband was lighting candles while it was supposedly dark outside on a Friday night, which obviously would have been mechalel Shabbos. (And I don't think hospitals allow open flames, since they have oxygen nearby.)
What was the plot? It didn't sound from your first link like it was going to be pro chassidish.
Bezalel99
Feb 6 2008, 05:11 PM
QUOTE (Bitter @ Feb 6 2008, 01:42 PM)

What was the plot? It didn't sound from your first link like it was going to be pro chassidish.
While women are dancing around with the kallah in a chair, she gets dizzy and falls off, breaking her leg and urinating blood. They take her to the hospital. In analyzing her symptoms, the medical team includes the fact that in six months she went from being a secular music producer and heroin-user to being a straight-laced ba'alat tshuva marrying a chassidic guy. House suggests that this change in her lifestyle is a symptom of mental disorder. Others on the team say that becoming religious doesn't imply lunacy, etc. One character who was very secular/atheistic later expresses admiration for some aspects of the religious lifestyle.
The only issues I remember being discussed were lashon hara and a woman's modesty.
Nechama
Feb 6 2008, 07:51 PM
It really wasn't that bad. Lots of little things were off. No one would marry off someone only 6 months into frumming out. She showed a bit more hair than I think would be realistic (ok, thats a nitpicking point).
I kinda liked Taub (the balding one) and how he dealt with things.
I read online that David Shore, the show's creator/runner has twin brothers are orthodox Rabbis, thus Chase's comment that he called in twin rabbis at one point.
The actress playing the woman is Laura Silverman,the sister of Sarah Silverman.
cerebral
Feb 11 2008, 11:01 PM
They seem to be Lubavitch because they use a Chabad nigun to start the episode off.
Bird
Feb 11 2008, 11:19 PM
What is the episode called? What # is it?
Bird
Feb 11 2008, 11:34 PM
QUOTE (Bird @ Feb 12 2008, 06:19 AM)

What is the episode called? What # is it?
Its called "don't ever change" its ep. 12. Its not up yet on either fox or youtube.
I hope my Mom has it saved in tivo.
Bezalel99
Feb 12 2008, 12:04 AM
QUOTE (Bird @ Feb 11 2008, 11:19 PM)

What is the episode called? What # is it?
Don't Ever Change, the 12th episode of the 4th season
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_episode...on_4:_2007-2008.
You can check Fox.com for episodes. I think they may wait a week after broadcast before posting House.
Shuli
Feb 12 2008, 12:22 AM
QUOTE (Bezalel99 @ Feb 12 2008, 01:04 AM)

Don't Ever Change, the 12th episode of the 4th season
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_episode...on_4:_2007-2008.
You can check Fox.com for episodes. I think they may wait a week after broadcast before posting House.
Why would they? Their other shows are up within one to two days...
brianna
Feb 12 2008, 12:36 AM
QUOTE (Shuli @ Feb 12 2008, 12:22 AM)

Why would they? Their other shows are up within one to two days...
To encourage people to watch the original broadcasts when they are aired.
Shuli
Feb 12 2008, 01:45 AM
QUOTE (brianna @ Feb 12 2008, 01:36 AM)

To encourage people to watch the original broadcasts when they are aired.
And you think they would only do that for House? Don't their other sponsors want people seeing their air time? (BTW, there ARE sponsored commercials in online episodes - and these are probably more watched than those that air on TV.)
Bezalel99
Feb 12 2008, 07:37 AM
QUOTE (Shuli @ Feb 12 2008, 12:22 AM)

Why would they? Their other shows are up within one to two days...
I don't know why, but it's a fact.
Nechama
Feb 12 2008, 10:53 AM
I think they air re-runs later that week, that might be why they dont post it right away.
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