your victim: a young mommy who doesn't have a clue.

post pros and cons of breastfeeding (BFG)* as well as pros and cons of bottlefeeding (BTF)*
just try to keep it balanced (i.e., not only pros of one and only cons of the other). also, if you post statistics you have to provide sources, and wikipedia doesn't count. no bashing!



*new acronyms created so we don't confuse it with BroadwayFreak

Mosheshmeal is so gonna castrate you.

there's a disclaimer at the top for anyone who's sick of the topic.

that said, i would like to hear what they'd say when completely unleashed. they seem to have to much information that they want to share but every time they start everyone groans and asks them to shut up already. it does get annoying that every nursing thread gets hijacks with a BFG vs. BTF war so i figured we can just condense it all into one thread.

Really there's no question here. Breastfeeding is by FAR the better option for the baby's good in almost every case. It's not always practical, but that's the truth. Ignore the propaganda put forth by the formula companies - they have a product to sell!

formula is expensive and might not be the first choice, but at the end of the day i don't think formula-fed babies are really at a disadvantage just because they weren't breastfed.

So? I don't think that snow should be white, but that doesn't change the fact. Do you have any BASIS for your opinion? The basis for my opinion is that I have read the knowledgable views of seasoned pediatricians who are experts on this matter, and who maintain that each mother's milk is naturally customized to perfection for the makeup of the baby and is the perfectly ideal form of sustenance for each baby. A one-size-fits-all formula that is created in a laboratory and artificially fortified with vitamins will work, but CANNOT be as good as the mother's own milk which is designed specifically for her baby.

To clarify:
are we arguing breastmilk vs. formula or breastfeeding vs. bottlefeeding.
Different topics altogether.

(And PM is right -- nothing can ever compare to what Hashem designed for babies and changes on a constant basis. Formula is a business, and is all about marketing and a product to sell. "Closer than ever" -- heh. Want to see a recently published article on the additves? How they have NOT improved intelligence? Incidentally, they cause diarrhea in many babies. But everyone THINKS they need DHA/ARA in their formula because of marketing. And they pay for it. Not proven to be beneficial at all. So even within the formula industry, it's all formula vs. formula and you never get a clear picture of what's necessary and what's garbage.)

But once this is clarified, I will B"N try to address your points.

Please note, even if a woman doesn't manage to give her child breastmilk, and needs to use formula, there are ways to still maintain the positive aspects of breastfeeding. Therefore, I need to know what we are debating to repeat again everything I've always said.

like i said, formula isn't the first choice.
my basis is that there are a bunch of people walking around and i'm sure that not every single one of them was breastfed, and yet they're all normal, healthy, regular people. if you told me that all bfg babies become geniuses and have an easier time in life because they can get better jobs due to their high IQ thanks to mommy's milk, that's one thing. but that's not how it is. can you really tell the difference between two different toddlers who was breastfed and who got forumla?

the original question was breastmilk vs. formula but feel free to take it elsewhere with the bottlefeeding, etc.

(i still maintain that breastmilk in a bottle isn't a big deal if you're giving the baby a pacifier, but i have no proof or experience to back that up)

1.It's not all about IQ. There definitely seem to be more cases of allergies, Parkinson's, various types of cancer, diabetes since formula was introduced. Some have stronger links than others, but you don't necessarily see the effects right away.
2. It's not necessarily on an individual level. Like with any risk, not everyone will be affected. But on a population level, there are more health problems.
3. A few points difference on IQ isn't necessarily noticable. But it still shows that a baby is missing out something vital.

My sister in law has a 100% accuracy rate on telling which children in her neigborhood were breastfed. I have no idea how she does it, but she can tell.

That is 100% pure speculation, as well as over-simplification and generalization right there.

No, I can't tell the difference, but I'm not a doctor, and I haven't conducted any studies!

Let me ask you, can you tell the difference between adults with high cholesterol and adults with normal cholesterol? I can't. Does that mean they're the same???

Ok.

Nope, you don't. Now, I'm not a big fan of pacifiers as I have seen extreme cases (one kid was seriously malnourished because she didn't want to eat, she only liked her pacifier once it was introduced, and mother only ended up feeding her 4 times a day as a newborn.), but they do help in some cases. But the benefits of breastfeeding are more than breastmilk. I am actually proofreading a book right now, so I can't post the information within it as it's not released yet, but she explains how oral motor development is optimized by breastfeeding as opposed to the mechanics of bottle sucking. The angle of breastfeeding is possibly a contributing factor to the statistically less ear infections a breastfed baby gets (yes, I know your niece who was breastfed had 5x as many ear infections as your son who only got bottles...but see point 2 above.) The closeness of a breastfeeding dyad is incomparable, and skin to skin has been proven to help stabilize vitals. If one must bottlefeed, she should try as much as possible to emulate what is done when breastfeeding to give these advantages if she can.
There are more benefits than the milk.

(In addition, like Arizona said in the other thread, pumping is not that simple as you make it sound. Many women cannot pump that well, especially if she usually nurses, and if she's around, no way will the baby agree to a bottle.)

proof?


how does she verify her guesses?

(She asks )
Why should I do all the work when it's done already....

http://www.promom.org/101/
Each reason is supported by sources.

Have fun!

While breastmilk wins hands down, I still don't think that a mother should ever be made to feel guilty if she decides that formula is the best choice for her baby for whatever reason. People go to all these crazy extremes about not letting their baby take formula, but as the kid gets older they wouldn't think twice about loading their kids with all other sorts of unhealthy nosh that are for sure causing more harm to the child's health than the formula would.

No, no one should be made to feel guilty.

But people should know what decision they're making, and not based on ads.
BTW, it's not true. Many parents are makpid what their kids eat nosh wise. I took a look at Gerber's Graduates Little Crunchies since I had a coupon and I was appalled. TOTAL junk, and it's being made to pretend it's healthy since it has less sodium than regular cheese curls. But there is no nutritional benefit at all to it! I don't buy bamba and bissli and nosh. A nosh for us is a granola bar or a whole wheat cracker. Otherwise, fruit or cereal or cheese is a snack.
And I do think there is a lack of knowledge about risks in formula. If the benefits outweighs the risk, fine. But everyone thinks of it as something "healthy". It's adequate, but I wouldn't call it healthy. And the first year of life is especially important to watch out for a youngster's health.

I'm pro bf'ing but I don't care what the next person does. And I often envy formula moms.

That seems pretty rude and intrusive to me.

Let's say a mother exclusively BFs baby for first six week. When she goes back to work and is BFG her baby while she is at home, does it matter if she leaves the baby-sitter with a couple of bottle of her own milk as opposed to bottles of formula?

Also I've heard from some mothers that if you don't get the baby used to taking a bottle and/or taking other milk besides for breast-milk when they are young, they will have a much harder time adjusting to it when they are - let's say a year old. Is this universally true?

(I know...I don't think she really asks point blank though. I have no idea how she words it, but she gets into a conversation about how easy it is to be sitting there in the park nursing her baby right there in the sling, and the other starts talking about what she did. Something like that. Totally not my personality, and shocked me, but the point still stands. She's never been wrong thus far.)

Yes, what's in the bottle is also important.
Breastmilk is her best defense against catchable diseases, pumping is the best way for mommy to keep up her supply, any and all breastmilk the baby gets just adds to the benefit. Many babies who are breastfed don't like the taste of formula.
Switching to formula is not as easy as it sounds, and i know quite a few babies who had negative reactions to cows-milk based, soy based, and had to get expensive hypoallergenic. Pumped milk won't have this problem, is less likely to spoil, free, a way to connect with the baby even if you're not there, the right balance of everything she needs.


Switching to cow's milk: I have NEVER seen that to be true of a child who doesn't have a sensitivity or allergy to cow's milk. Since breastmilk is constantly changing in taste, babies who are used to bottles, from what I've seen, don't necessarily take too badly to a change in types of milk. Some mothers have introduced it gradually (by mixing in their milk), but never have I seen a baby refuse it because he was breastfed if he didn't have a medical reason not to drink it. (Babies are instinctive that way, BTW).
As far as getting used to a bottle, that might be true on baby's temperament, but at a few month's old you might be able to introduce a cup.

Okay I'm going to put my 2 cents in.
As some of you know by now I am a fan of bottle feeding with formula.
B'H all my kids are healthy and I don't think anyone would be able to tell which of my children were nursed or bottlefed.
I think it is every mother's personal decision and once again, either way she shouldn't be shunned. I think women who nurse should feel comfortable doing that wherever they are and accomodations should be made for them.
(I once had to nurse one of my kids on a toilet seat in a public bathroom)
But, if I had another baby I would bottle feed, I don't see any differences in my kids.

Spot, you wanted data?
http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/article...la-report-2.htm

With agent around there's no need for me to add anything. Except the benefits for the mother. Protection against breast cancer, cervical cancer, ovarian cancer.

(well to be fair, it only lowers one's risk; it's not guaranteed prevention -- before I hear someone jump in with some horror story of a woman they know who got cancer and she did breastfeed. Also, IIRC, I think it's b'davka post-menopausal breast cancer, but I may be wrong.)

a lot of premenopausal breast cancer is genetic, so it's got nothing to do with breastfeeding.

for me it's simple: breast is best. It's the position of every major medical organisation. Formula's great when it's needed. I had to use it this time. But I would never use it if I had the choice.

As for seeing a difference, you never see the same child both on breastmilk and formula, so how can you know? Every child is different. For some children the benefits of breastmilk may be more important (more fragile immune system, more prone to allergies, whatever) and you have no way of knowing which your child will be.

Might as well post this...
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20081102-16879.html


Breastmilk contains stem cells; something formula will never have.

NY-LON: get in touch with me when you've had this baby and I'll help you if I can