Spinoff of melech's thread. (I refer you to his thread for his definitions of first, second, third degree relatives.)

Holocaust victim includes anyone who was directly victimized by the nazis, whether they were killed or survived. Does not include WWII casualties of other sorts, died in combat, etc.

To recap from melech:

A grandparent is a second degree (your parent's parent.) Your grandparent's sibling is a third degree (a second degree's first degree). Your great-grandparent is a third degree. Your great-grandparent's sibling is a fourth degree. et cetera.

brother's wife's father's family. that's what? fourth degree?

Well you invented the system so you should know. Brother=first degree. His spouse=second degree. Her father=third degree. His family members=fourth degree.

(I actually wasn't even thinking about sibling-in-laws although they're for sure included.)

well, siblings-in-law* are the closest I can get - I'm fourth generation American, my wife is third generation Canadian...




*excuse, me, ma'am, but didn't you previously instruct me about such plurals?

Same here--I'm 4th generation and my husband is third generation American. I have too many siblings-in-law ka"h to keep track of where all their grandparents came from.


My bubbie came to the U.S. from Poland in the 1920s as a child but her extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins) stayed behind and perished. Those are the closest blood relatives that I can think of.

*So I did.

grandfather and grandmother's brother (among other male relatives) fought in the war. grandmother with my mother's half-brother left the city before it was occupied. b'h, no one from my family that i know of was in Baby Yar.

my mom's parents were both survivors.
my bubby lost her 6 siblings, parents, grandparents etc. the whole family was basically wiped out.
my zeida lost his parents and his first wife and 2 small children.
neither ever spoke about the holocaust, but we were all forbidden to step foot in Poland or Germany and we (grandchildren and great grandchildren ) have all respected their wishes.

Interesting...I'm third generation American and fourth generation Canadian, kind of the opposite combo of both of you.

That said, neither of those statements being true actually prevent me from having a close relative who was a victim of the holocaust, as many children came over to North America as adults even before WWI, while their parents stayed behind in Europe and were killed in the holocaust. That's what happened in my family, my grandfather came over while his parents stayed behind and my great grandmother was killed in the holocaust.

Now if you're really nice to me, I'll consider telling you which well known Orthodox institutions both of my great grandfathers helped found in Toronto in the early 1900s, since you're obviously a newcomer to the T.O. Jewish community [relatively speaking].

Is none whatsoever "more than 4th degree"?

Do siblings spouses family count?

Spouse's siblings spouse?

That would go under "unknown" (because you could have a distant relative that you know nothing about.)


Siblings and in-laws count.

Some people actually know their geneology and know for a fact that there are no survivors in their family.

First degree (my father). My father and grandmother were at the Kovno ghetto and escaped to Shanghai with Sugihara visas. My great-grandparents and a great-aunt died in the Holocaust.

2nd degree

I wrote unknown, but to my knowledge the answer is really "none." If we expand the definition to include things like pogroms in the 30's that led up to the Holocaust, then my answer changes, but all my relatives made it out before the Nazis*.




* because even then we knew better than to listen to Daas Torah on political matters

I guess my grandparents survived in a way- they weren't in the same town at the time but their families were wiped out. And a cousin of my father's (my second cousin? first once removed?) survived a mass shooting, climbing out of the pit alive.

My grandparents(all 8 of them) are/were survivors.

Various aunts, uncles, great-aunts and great-uncles.

most of my grandfather's uncles and aunts -- i guess that's 4 degrees?
the only person around my age (late 20s) whom i know personally who has a 1-degree separation from a holocaust victim is not jewish.

How can you have 8 grandparents?
Don't most people have 4 grandparents?

all of my grandparents were survivors, (=4)

My fiancee's grandfather was the only member of his (then) family to survive.

My great-grandfather's citizenship papers:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v336/mel...zenship0001.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v336/mel...zenship0001.jpg

First degree. My father escaped from the Nazis in March 1939 by chartering a plane along with nine other Czechs and flying to London. They were told they'd be sent back to Poland. They refused to go, so were carried by the British police, holding them by their arms and legs, back onto the plane. Once on the plane they said they'd all jump out if it took off. The pilot refused to fly, there was a huge howdydo in the Government and finally they were allowed to stay. My father managed to earn enough money between March and September 39 to get his two brothers out with tickets to Shanghai via London but it was too late to save his parents, 3 sisters and two little nieces.

My father told me this story many times and how his picture, being carried to the plane, was headline news. He hadn't kept any copies of the papers, so after his death from cancer in 1978, I went searching the newspaper archives until I found it. He really was the front page picture. It's now on my website. "This Czech dreaded going back" the splash said. "Airport drama of refugees told they can't stay". I can put it up on tinypix if anyone's interested.