Ok, a couple has a big argument over whether the wife should daven mincha and she rips up the kesubah in rage. She immediately comes to her senses and apologizes. The couple has a good talk and everything is back to normal.

What happens next? What would you do?

Get another one.

(and possibly marriage counseling?)

why is this something that warrants couseling. Seems pretty normal

Do you just go to a rabbi and have another one drawn up?

Does he need to perform an actual ceremony (ring, winesses, etc...)?

Would you sleep in separate houses (someone mentioned something about that in the other thread)?

Wouldn't it be embarrassing to admit to doing this?

Yes.

I don't think so but I could be wrong. (It would probably be the same procedure as if it were lost or ruined in another way.)

I think you might have to until there is another one. That's why I'd get it done immediately.

Yes, of course it would.



I guess I'm lucky Hubby and I don't destroy stuff when we're angry. The degree of fight that would lead to something like this would have us on the brink of divorce and we would definitely need counseling.

Out of curiousity, does stuff like that happen at your house often?

I think I would be too embarrassed to go to someone and tell him what happened.

Put it together with duct tape.  

Do you need to sleep in separate houses? Well, if she's still in the same mood as when she tore up the ksuva it might not be such a bad idea...

If she ripped up her own kesubah, then she loses the document of proof of what she's entitled to (support, etc.), right?

So how is this different than someone ripping up their own copy of a contract?

Some people destroy stuff when they get mad. I guess if you aren't used to a high intesity fight such as the one VLG described it might be a little disturbing. I don't think it would effect me like that if thats what you are asking.

Don't, all you have to say is it is "lost" and you don't think there is much possibility to find it.....

I suppose you're right. I'm sure there would be follow-up questions, though which would require lying.

in the case I wrote about, the rav said they could not sleep together until they got a new kesuva written up. They did not have to go through thewhole marraige process again, just a new kesuva. (and I don't think they went to counselling - they were young and dumb!)

Let me guess... they were so dumb that when they were told they couldn't sleep together they put a car alarm inside their bedroom to keep them awake...

I guess I'm just not used to fighting where stuff is destroyed. To me, it would be a very big deal.

You have to be more than young and dumb to do something like this? I was young and dumb (and maybe still am) and can never imagine doing this after I was at a stage in which I was able to choose to marry someone.

i also heard that, if the kesuba gets lost (never heard of ripping it up cases till today, on h.com), the spouses can't sleep (stay?) together, so yeah - get to the rav for the new one ASAP

This would seem an opportune moment to get divorced on the cheap.

I don't know about marriage counseling, but anger management therapy might be good.

That was my first reaction, but then I saw the part about making up...

It's still an opportunity. It's the old "your money or your wife" question.

Is that why so many ketubot are framed, so that it won't be easy to tear them asunder?

That's what I've heard.



I think it's more because A. it's pretty and decorative, and B. that way the wife knows where it is (as opposed to it getting lost in a closet somewhere.)

What if you still have a photocopy, is that ok?

No, then the husband can pay with counterfeit money I heard.

The moving image, like the still image, is a medium. No more and no less.

Do you allow books in your home? Do you allow magazines in your home? Why?

I understand why someone may not want a VCR or DVD player or TV in their home but to say that the reason is because it represents western culture is a tad intellectually dishonest (or just plain old unaware).


Back on topic, why are a husband and wife forbidden to spend the night together when they don't have a kesubah?