In your opinion, is it too obvious that I purposely set the timer for the lights to go out at 8 PM tonight to get rid of the Friday night guests early?

Don't invite guests if you don't really want them there.

I'm fine if they stay for a few minutes. And anyway, no man is an island.

I would do it. Usually, I just start yawning and tell my husband that I"m going to sleep and he can finish up. I get wayyy tooo tired for dragged out meals.

(wait! Are you saying when shabbos starts at 4 or when it starts at 7:30 p.m.?)

No it's brilliant. I try to do the same thing for lunch. It doesn't work quite as well for obvious reasons, but I think it sends the message that a long time has gone by (certainly the standard amount of time that you expected guests to be there has elapsed).

The only problem is if you do it all the time. Setting the lights to go off has to be something you pretend was not done on purpose. If they go off at 8 every time you have guests they will start to remember and be offended that that you didn't plan accordingly.

let's say 5:30. start at 6:30. kiddush, eat, bentch. hour and a half. sounds socially generous enough to me.


It's more my wife I'm worried about.

Yes, but maybe that's just because I know other people who do it.
(Except for when melech talks about food, I feel like I'm reading posts by my father.)

I agree that it's plenty of time.

Well, you can say 'oh! did i not give the lights enough time, woops - sorry about that' (it will only be a problem when it happens too many weeks in a row).

Also, you know it may not work. It once happened to my parents (presumably an accident my father made) and guests still sat and shmoozed in dark until 11

1.5 - 2h is plenty long for a Friday night meal. Most people leave shortly after bentching unless the host suggests otherwise. I think having the lights go out is a great way to encourage the stragglers to leave.

We use the lights to read afterward . Any ideas for us?

Leave lights on in the bedroom or (and this is even better, but requires careful timing) set the lights to go off and then back on 30 minutes later. As long as the people take the hint and leave (and won't walk past your window later) you are in the clear.

It's not as bad as getting undressed at the table, but it's kind of obvious, yes.

Am I the only one who finds this thread slightly disturbing?
If you think someone is going to wear out their welcome, why would you invite them?
If you are inviting people and you may or may not like them, I can possibly understand. But to regularly do this seems that you are just an anti-social person or you just don't really have likable friends.

bEING THAT WE MAKE KIDDISH at 7 pm all winter, that's kinda early.

When you invite them, did you say yoou're going to a shiur after the seudah, or a sholom zochor, or some such? otherwise some ppl think the seudah is the "evening activity".

I don't know.
Because you would like to socialize with them for an hour or hour and a half, but are worried that it may drag out longer. These people might not be known for drawing out convo, but sometimes it happens even with people that Know the social rules of 'let's go now' .

Because sometimes it's the only invitation they will get.

Yes, and in my opinion it's not an appropriate way to treat invited guests.

Nope

Exactly. I think there are less obvious ways to hint that it's time to go, but something as direct as the lights going off seems way too much, IMVHO. Shabbat dinners at my parents home regularly take more than an hour and a half. People like to chat over coffee and dessert. What's the big rush? Don't you want your guests to feel welcome in your home? Having the lights go out on them will not yield that result, I can assure you. If getting to sleep early on Friday night is such a big priority for you, you might not want to invite non-family guests over for Friday night meals. Just a thought...

Sorry I just don't understand hostility towards guests that you VOLUNTARILY invited.

Agree 100%. Don't invite them if sleeping is your priority

And you don't do that apologetic thing of using white wine or saying that incantation to cancel out the bad martian forces?

From your lips to God's ears. God of course being a euphemism for my wife.

When I'm tired I get up and leave. Occasionally people get the hint.

Nu? So did the lights go out at 8 PM or not?

Shabbos Morning right before the meal all the electricity went off in the section of Jerusalem I was in. No one left

Poor you....

Melech was talking about having the lights go out at night though, which would have left people in darkness, clearly lights going out at a morning meal doesn't quite have the same impact, so no such luck.

I don't know, it would have been pretty close because there were a lot of candles... But B"H it happened during the day or there might have been a stampede...

And I was amused by the people who used it as an opportunity to complain. One was beside himself that there wouldn't be hot water for tea, another hysterical about what we would do when it got dark (ignoring the obvious fact that this was lunch and we had to finish and daven before shkiyah) and another was complaining that there was no light in the bathroom as if I could do anything to rectify the situation.....

An hour and a half is the customary amount of time to stay for a shabbos meal? Do people really bentsh right after eating and leave right after bentshing?

8 PM is too early and rude, IMHO.

No, Melech. DH has a shiur at that time that he looks forward to all week!

Because of this thread I paid attention to what time our guests left- 8:30ish

My father had a friend who would eat an apple, then say loudly "I always eat an apple just before I go to bed." It generally worked.

Not all guests are invited. When we were first married and still very much in honeymoon mode, a friend of my husband came over after supper uninvited and just wouldn't leave. I was waiting for hubby in the bedroom and he kept popping in to tell me how things were progressing with the uninvited guest (it wasn't) so I suggested he get into pajamas and see if that made the guest take the hint. So he appeared in the living room in his pajamas and...you've guessed it. The guest, a bochur, needless to say, did not take the hint.

I wouldn't like to make the lights go off early just to get rid of guests. I *need* the lights on for me too! Who wants to creep around in the pitch black trying to clear up supper etc? It's like Seder night! We enjoy our guests and if they really do outstay their welcome by too much, which doesn't often happen, we are confident enough to say "thanks SO much for coming, can I help you get your coat?" or something. To be honest, we always go on a walk after supper on Friday night, sholom zochor crawling or just a walk for a walk's sake, so it's easy to say "we're going for a walk, can we walk you back home?"

No. I'm a big talker, but all talk and no action. No way I would do that. We bentched at 9:30, and I was fast asleep in bed with the little one by 10. It was very nice, a good time was had by all.

Glad to hear it. I can't imagine your wife would have been too pleased with you had you actually done it.

I'm also perplexed as to why you would need to go to sleep so early on Friday night specifically. I can't imagine that services at the BAYT start at 5 AM on shabbat. What gives?

I once has 2 sixth-grade students who decided to drop in on me on Shabbos afternoon. Finally I said, "I'm going to a women's shiur now." They decided to accompany me to the shiur and then went around telling everyone how I "shlepped them" there.

I get up early.

Why can't you just say "it's time to wrap things up," or something to that effect?

It's shabbath, what's the rush?

I am guessing you don't have small children who make no difference between Shabbos and weekdays as to what time they wake the parents in the mornings. That's the rush. If you knew your little one was likely to be up by five you'd want all the sleep you could get.

Yup! Yup! (for sure when we're guests and in general, when we have guests that's how it works

Edit because I forgot something

I think generally people will stay a polite amount of time after bentching in order not to seem like they are running out, but basically bentching is a sign the meal is over and that's the signal for guests to leave.
Although sometimes kids will stay to play on shabbat afternoon...

Most of the families I know that have small children and who are worried about getting enough sleep either go out for meals on Friday night or simply do not host them.

I deleted that sentence, please feel free to edit your post.

And the hosts will chat, also to not seem like they're kicking out the guests. So no one says what they really want and everyone loses out.
Many guests like going home too.

Unless the guests do indeed really want to stay and the hosts want them to stay...

True, but if there are never any hints, the guests can't know to stay if they want to. I know I feel most comfortable when I know my hosts will kick me out when they want their quiet / privacy / free time / me out so I don't have to constantly try to figure out what they want (if I have no choice but accept the invitation in the first place...).

My parents only invite people when they are up to hosting people and enjoying their company and then they usually invite good friends of theirs. It annoys me more when we go out to eat and the meal just drags on and on, I've left more than a few Friday night dinners early.

We frquently have abunch of bachurim and/or sem girls over, and our friday night meals have gone until almost midnight (in the dead of winter...)
there are times where as much as you enjoy the guests its just time for them to go.......
i have found it so much easier to just say 'listen its time, i have to go to sleep' than to worry about what hints im dropping.....
(if you would only see how relieved people are when i tell them that i will let them know when its time to go.......)