What is it that is stopping you from moving to israel? would that reason prevent you from coming when moshiach comes? if not why don't you just jump on the boat

I don't feel I would integrate well into Israeli society.

I would not want to worry about raising American kids in Israeli society (due to the reason above, my kids would be American even if born in Israel).

I feel that the material quality of life would be below that which I am used to. (I readily admit that the spiritual quality of life would be greater than that which I am used to.)

Also, it's not easy to "jump on the boat" just like that.

how about if there was a possibility to move to an english speaking american style town with american style schools etc.

Why would I want to do that? Because my zip code would be in Israel?

That still wouldn't address the quality of life issue. I would never get a job that would make the amount of money I could make in America, in Israel.

1. When people own property, have long-term jobs or running businesses it's not so easy to just "jump on the boat".
2. For certain people Aliyah would mean leaving their support systems behind and starting out all alone.
3. Has it even dawned on you that some people have been to Israel and genuinely don't like it?

Both of you are ignoring joshman's second question. Namely,

The question is completely irrelevant, since it assumes no relevant difference between our times and the times of Moshiach...

My answer is - when moshiach comes we'll know what the new situation is and will be able to make decisions accordingly.

I see.

To be fair that is the assumption of the Gemara (in Brochos 34b and elsewhere).

Wrong. The gemara says that the times of moshiach will not have supernatural events. It doesn't say that the social, economic and political status quo will prevail.

But addressing accolade's concerns will an "American society" exist in Eretz Yisrael?

(BTW I would argue it already does.)

I agree that (mostly frummy) Anglo ghettos exist in EY, but living inside a ghetto is claustrophobic, and if someone really wants to adapt long-term to EY they need to interact with native Israelis. So, if you can't get along with Israelis your options in Israel, while not non-existent, are pretty mediocre.

How is this any different from people that live in the ghettos of Lakewood, Boro Park. Monsey, Monroe, Baltimore or North Miami Beach and shelter themselves from the rest of the world?

Ramat Beit Shemesh, Modiin, Chashmanaim, all over Yerushalayim - the Anglo areas are neither "ghetto" nor claustrophobic at all IMHO.

No different. Btw, there is a ghetto in Miami Beach proper. I don't think North Miami Beach is a ghetto.

I won't get into the other places you named but Ramat Beit Shimush?!? are you kidding? I think claustrophobic is by far not one of the worse things that can be said about that  hellhole  community.

Oh, forgive me. I was referring to aleph, not bet.

I wouldn't go anywhere near ramat beit shimush.

As for Yerushalayim, I agree that if you can afford it (<---big if) and you can get along with Israelis and Anglos, Rechavia is not a bad choice. There are quite a few other Anglo areas that are more claustrophobic than a 1'x1' elevator stuck on the 43rd floor... Can you say "Mattersdorf"?

I don't know what the land will be like when mashiach comes. I would like to live near the bhm"k if I could.

I see. Good luck with that. Seems most of the spots near the bhm'k are already taken by people who didn't wait till the last minute...

He could always pitch a tent on the parking lot next to Shaar Tzion. That's pretty close.

I'd be satisfied if "close" means a short plane ride away. I'm sure I'll be happy to live in my ancestral land (when I find out to which shevet I belong).

That's easy..

what year were you born?
גרעין א (1926 תרפ"ו), גרעין ב (1927 תרפ"ז), גרעין ג (1928 תרפ"ח), גרעין ד (1929 תרפ"ט), גרעין ה (1930 תר"צ), גרעין ו (1931 תרצ"א), גרעין ז (1932 תרצ"ב), נתיבות (1933 תרצ"ג), עציון (1934 תרצ"ד), גאולים (1935 תרצ"ה), איתנים (1936 תרצ"ו), מתנחלים (1937 תרצ"ז), הטירה (1938 תרצ"ח), אמונים (1939 תרצ"ט), יבנה (1940 ת"ש), נחלים (1941 תש"א), מרחבים (1942 תש"ב), חלוצים (1943 תש"ג), נטעים (1944 תש"ד), עלומים (1945 תש"ה), אורים (1946 תש"ו), שח"ל (1947 תש"ז), מגשימים (1948 תש"ח), גלבוע (1949 תש"ט), נחשון (1950 תש"י), להגשמה (1951 תשי"א), יחדיו (1952 תשי"ב), מוריה (1953 תשי"ג), הראל (1954 תשי"ד), צורים (1955 תשט"ו), שח"ם (1956 תשט"ז), שובה (1957 תשי"ז), ישורון (1958 תשי"ח), כיסופים (1959 תשי"ט), גולן (1960 תש"כ), רעות (1961 תשכ"א), עמיחי (1962 תשכ"ב), אריאל (1963 תשכ"ג), היובל (1964 תשכ"ד), התחיה (1965 תשכ"ה), צוריאל (1966 תשכ"ו), עמיעד (1967 תשכ"ז), אלישיב (1968 תשכ"ח), אחוה (1969 תשכ"ט), ידידיה (1970 תש"ל), החלוץ (1971 תשל"א), דרור (1972 תשל"ב), עצמאות (1973 תשל"ג), הצבי (1974 תשל"ד), המבשר (1975 תשל"ה), עמישב (1976 תשל"ו), נחלה (1977 תשל"ז), ברמה (1978 תשל"ח), אחדות (1979 תשל"ט), אמונה (1980 תש"ם), שלם (1981 תשמ"א), נריה (1982 תשמ"ב), התקומה (1983 תשמ"ג), יחיעם (1984 תשמ"ד), עוז (תשמ"ה 1985), קוממיות (1986 תשמ"ו), עמיצור (1987 תשמ"ז), אלעד (1988 תשמ"ח), לביא (1989 תשמ"ט), אחיה (1990 תש"ן), נצח (1991 תשנ"א), שבות (1992 תשנ"ב), דביר (1993 תשנ"ג).

What does this post mean?

Those are Hebrew characters.

A list of shevet names according to year of birth. You said you wated to find out your shevet.

Please don't encourage her...

You and I seem to have different definitions for the word shevet.

Do it for them...

What a some posters above said (accolade and krum)
Probably not.
Everything has to be paid for.

I want to watch my baby relatives grow up and I want to be close with them; I don't just want to be some relative of theirs in Israel.

If it weren't for them, I'd make aliyah.

Then get married and have a few baby relatives of your own.

Sure, good plan. I'll put that on my to-do list for tomorrow. Easy as pie.

Tuesday To Do List
1- Go to work
2- Go shopping
3- Get married

Fact: If you make Aliyah your plane ticket is FREE. (As is the cab ride from the airport to your home.)

(If you prefer to take a boat instead of a plane I'm fairly certain that could be arranged to be free as well.)



More like they will be some relatives in Brooklyn. Anyway someone has to be the first ones. They all follow after that...

Since krum isn't going to explain, those are Bnei Akiva "shevatim." Each year gets one.

The years are not quite accurate though - because the shevet is given out the summer after 10th grade (or is it 9th? I don't remember anymore) one's shevet is dependent on the year you are in school, not the year you are born. I myself had (still have, i guess) a shevet one year off what you posted there.

For the record, קוממיות should never have been a shevet. Someone should have had the foresight to see how annoying that would be when the קוממיות kids scream it out during bentching. And it has 4 syllables... how were they supposed to do tilala?


As for the OP, what's stopping me is schooling. I hope to make aliyah soon after finishing (for practical reasons I suspect it will take about a year and a half after I graduate).

Nefesh B'Nefesh

You don't know my family. If I move, it'll just be me. No one will follow.

Oh, you're right. They are from Brooklyn. My bad.

It has nothing to do with being from Brooklyn. My next door neighbors in Brooklyn made aliyah. It's about values.

There are olim from Brooklyn. But proportionally speaking, compared to the amount of Jews that are living there... they don't even hold a candle to say someplace like Aliyah from Texas. Brooklyn just doesn't make Aliyah. They already have a siren for Shabbos there. Teaneck makes aliyah. Even Monsey does (somewhat believe it or not). But the only place with worse proportional numbers than Brooklyn...is guess what? (and this is a surprise though I guess it shouldn't be) Toronto! So melech you are not alone in talking about Aliyah but not making it. It's a Toronto thing I guess.

Yeah, there's truth to that. When it's so easy to be frum there's no incentive to move.

The incentive should be that it's a mitzvah. But it's just too bad RMF holds it's a mitzvah reshus like Tzitzis and not a chumrah like having a $10,000 esrog or having no pictures of any women in the Oorah catalog...

If that were motivation enough, we'd all be tzaddikim.


RMF?

HaRav Moshe Feinstein, ZT"L. (Commonly abbreviated as RMF.)

Oh, okay.

But it's not like he made up this ruling out of thin air.

I didn't find it so easy to be frum in Toronto. In fact, life was quite the opposite.

Nothing compares to Medinat Yisrael Reishit Tzemichat Ge'ulateinu. The air itself that you breath is more spiritual and more conducive to frum living.

Really? This definitely isn't one of the places in which I've had the "easiest" time being frum, either.

What, that's it's a mitzvah like Tzitzis? Of couse he didn't just make it up. In fact the Ramban goes way further and says it's a mitzvah like Matzah. (A Chiyuv Mitzvah). But alas, no one holds it's a chumrah so there is simply no incentive.

If you are having a hard time being frum, regardless of which side of the world you are on, then maybe it doesn't have to do with geography.

I don't believe the reason people from Toronto don't make Aliyah is the same as the reason people from Brooklyn don't make Aliyah.

For Brooklyn is because it's easy being frum. For Toronto they have very tight-knit families spanning generations even. Would you agree?

Absolutely. I do my best when I crawl into Classic's world and ignore what everyone else does.


I have no idea why people do or do not make aliyah, but from my understanding, most of the Jewish families in Toronto have only been there since after the Holocaust.

And in Brooklyn we don't have tight-knit families spanning generations? My grandparents are also great-grandparents many times over.