I was going over kedoshim with my kid yesterday. He asked:
1. Lo tenachashu. Don't believe in signs. So why are there so many things in sha's that are siman ra lo or siman tov lo?
2. Umikdashi tira'u. We're not supposed to go into shul with a walking stick or a money belt since shul is a mikdash me'at. So why can we wear shoes? And why do people go into shul in boots?
Full Version: signs and shoes
QUOTE (melech @ Feb 19 2008, 09:11 AM) 
I was going over kedoshim with my kid yesterday. He asked:
1. Lo tenachashu. Don't believe in signs. So why are there so many things in sha's that are siman ra lo or siman tov lo?
2. Umikdashi tira'u. We're not supposed to go into shul with a walking stick or a money belt since shul is a mikdash me'at. So why can we wear shoes? And why do people go into shul in boots?
1. Lo tenachashu. Don't believe in signs. So why are there so many things in sha's that are siman ra lo or siman tov lo?
2. Umikdashi tira'u. We're not supposed to go into shul with a walking stick or a money belt since shul is a mikdash me'at. So why can we wear shoes? And why do people go into shul in boots?
1. Good question. The answer is that there are signs, and there are signs. I think the Torah means to forbid reading "arbitrary" or "folk" signs, while signs that have their origin in holy sources are acceptable. For instance, it is said that a lunar eclipse (to my understanding) is seen as a negative sign, because Torah-true sources state that the moon symbolizes the nation of Israel. On the other hand, associating a black cat with bad luck has no Torah basis and is thus unacceptable.
2. I would venture that it has to do with societal norms. Today we don't normally use walking sticks, and I've never seen a money belt personally. Shoes are normally worn at all times; they are never removed as a sign of respect in this country at least. So it would be meaningless. If anything, going barefoot may be considered a breach of tzniyus nowadays, which would obviously be undesirable in a holy place.
QUOTE (Pure Myrrh @ Feb 19 2008, 09:25 AM)
1. Good question. The answer is that there are signs, and there are signs. I think the Torah means to forbid reading "arbitrary" or "folk" signs, while signs that have their origin in holy sources are acceptable. For instance, it is said that a lunar eclipse (to my understanding) is seen as a negative sign, because Torah-true sources state that the moon symbolizes the nation of Israel. On the other hand, associating a black cat with bad luck has no Torah basis and is thus unacceptable.
If I tell my kid in essence, "it's a torah prohibition to believe in signs...except for the ones we do", I can tell you right now there's no way he's going to buy that.
QUOTE
2. I would venture that it has to do with societal norms. Today we don't normally use walking sticks, and I've never seen a money belt personally. Shoes are normally worn at all times; they are never removed as a sign of respect in this country at least. So it would be meaningless. If anything, going barefoot may be considered a breach of tzniyus nowadays, which would obviously be undesirable in a holy place.
He will likely say that societal norms in BHM times was to wear shoes, or at least sandals, and that people didn't typically walk around barefoot then, so societal norms are no different today than yesterday in that regard. He will likely also comment that boots should be as forbidden in shuls as shoes were in the BHM.
QUOTE (melech @ Feb 19 2008, 09:10 PM)
If I tell my kid in essence, "it's a torah prohibition to believe in signs...except for the ones we do", I can tell you right now there's no way he's going to buy that.
Why would you say it like that? Say it like the torah prohibits marriage with your relatives except some that the torah permits.QUOTE
He will likely say that societal norms in BHM times was to wear shoes, or at least sandals, and that people didn't typically walk around barefoot then, so societal norms are no different today than yesterday in that regard. He will likely also comment that boots should be as forbidden in shuls as shoes were in the BHM.
Mikdash me'at
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QUOTE (doodlehead @ Feb 20 2008, 08:21 AM)
Why would you say it like that? Say it like the torah prohibits marriage with your relatives except some that the torah permits.
No, it's like the torah prohibiting eating ostrich except when it's served at a yeshivah dinner.
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Then why not permit walking sticks and money belts in shul?
QUOTE (melech @ Feb 20 2008, 08:25 AM)
No, it's like the torah prohibiting eating ostrich except when it's served at a yeshivah dinner.
Why?QUOTE
Then why not permit walking sticks and money belts in shul?
Me'at.
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