As taken from here. Can anyone source this?

That's total bull, and I could disprove it easily, but I'm too lazy to go through all the trouble of writing such a long post....

In one of the great ironies, it's Chazal at the beginning of Yerushalmi Pesachim, 2b. It's why women are trusted to perform an adequate bedikat chametz*.

Now watch the torah truers apologetically spin this into something positive in subsequent posts.


*The commentators of course say that's a textual error in the Yerushalmi: It's why women are NOT trusted to perform an adequate bedikat chametz.

This is yet another reason why we don't teach women gemara...

But either way, no one disputes the fact that they are lazy...

exactly. we wouldn't want women to have any sort of a brain because then they wouldn't agree so easily to being barefoot and pregnant their whole lives now would they?

That's hardly the point!

More like the reason we don't invite them into the GQ - so they don't see what we are saying about them.

very nice!

how could being lazy be a reason to trust with an adequate bedikas chametz?! if anything, it should be just the opposite?

what exactly does it say there about women being lazy?

That's what I want to know. It seems to me that the Eishet Chayil is anything but lazy and Chazal knows that while the man sits at the gate of the town, the woman is off doing, like EVERYTHING.

It DOES start off with "Aishes Chayil Mi Yimtza?"

Right, and hence the commentators immediately note that the Yerushalmi has a corrupted text
[as KR correctly pointed out, they are correcting the textual error regarding whether they are trusted, NOT whether they are lazy].



http://kodesh.snunit.k12.il/b/r/r2301_002b...;ים

עצמן הן נאמנות מפני שהן עצילות והן בודקות כל

שהוא כל שהוא.

עצלות according to Jastrow is laziness, indolence http://tabs-online.com/TABS/Jastrow/

At least that's what we tell the women.

It would seem in contrary to the rest of Judaism that men would suddenly want women to perform ritual acts.

melech, could you please translate that?

Indeed.
I have long said on h.com that the men should be doing the cleaning for pesach based on this concept that the bedikah is seen as a man's ritual. To have the woman of the house spend a month scouring the house from top to bottom and inside out and then man shows up erev erev pesach to walk around with a candle...nobody is seeing anything wrong with that picture?


Paraphrase:

Women are [not] reliable to perform bedikat chamezt because they are considered to be lazy and do not check thoroughly.

(The textual corruption is that our copies of the Yerushalmi omit the word [not] but every commentator assumes the correct reading includes it - as was mentioned above, it makes no sense otherwise).

(someone i know is starting her pesach cleaning this week )

thank you.

Your view of an ideal society is anti-Judaism.

But for taharas hamishpacha we trust them with everything???

My view of an ideal society is one which is loyal to Chazal. Chazal said women aren't trusted to do the bedikah. The bedikah we do the eve of the 14th is not some sort of pro forma feel good exercise - it's supposed to be an actual cleaning of chametz and double checking. What we do today, because our houses are big and our possessions are many, is we typically start cleaning let's say a month earlier. But that's still part of the bedikah, we just don't say a berachah.
How is the men doing the cleaning and checking for chametz during the preceding month anti-Judaism as opposed to consistent with the values of chazal?

Actualy the men oversee the women who oversee their hispanic maids who are also considered to be lazy (I'm sure there's a makor for that somewhere.)

Yes. I guess that's different. The issue is that cleaning for pesach takes tremendous diligence; I guess doing an internal bedikah is different than a household bedikah. But I'm guessing. In any event, it's not that we don't trust them in the sense of not believing them, it's that we don't rely on their bedikat chametz to have been sufficiently thorough.

(I was being facetious.)
What does loyal to Chazal mean? How is it different from going back to Chazal's days, and would you do it?

Why are women trusted to check for bugs if they're considered yarei shamayim enough?

Oh. I didn't realize.


Consistent with Chazal's values, maybe? But updated? I'm not sure.


It has nothing to do with yir'at shamayim.
I think bedikat chametz is a special case, again, because it's so difficult physically. But I'm just guessing; I don't really know.

How far do you go with saying what's values and what's just products of the time they lived in?


I'll have to find the quote. I believe some sefer (don't remember the source) said that one can trust a woman to check vegetables if the women is frum / sincere / yarei shamayim and was never before proven to be negligent in this area.

OK.

I don't know.


Right. I thought you meant women are trusted davka because they are yir'ot shamayim. Of course a yir'at shamayim is trusted to check for bugs.

THANK YOU!



(another nutjob here )

(wow, people. to be honest, i was thinking of starting cleaning kitchen cabinets, but that's only because i do want them cleaned, not because of pesach, but because of spring cleaning, and because i can clean only on sundays, so a few sundays before purim i can afford spending on the spring cleaning stuff)

Wow, people are already starting their Pesach cleaning? I should start arranging selling my kitchen for pesach and booking a pesach cruise....

(someone I know already started :amazed: )

I'll bite

Since the women have cleaned the house thoroughly and know that there is no chometz to be found, they will be lazy in their bedikah. Can you please tell me where you got the idea that the in the time of the gemara the cleaning was done oir l'arbah oisur?

Because there is a whole discussion whether bedika today is D'oarisa or D'Rabannan.
There was a time when the Bedika WAS the "pesach cleaning" and if it were not done thoroughly a person could be oiver on possessing Chometz.... Then the bedikah was the d'oarisa mitzvah of biur chometz and was a very serious thing.

Nowadays we not only sell our chometz and do "bittul" but clean every millimeter our houses starting from Tu B'Shvat, so the bedikah is little more than a formality. But it wasn't always so...

My house is still turned upside down to some extent from the move. If I do some closets etc. now, I can save myself heartache later and organize at the same time