Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: When is it ok to lie?
Hashkafah.com > Thinking Jewish > Divrei Torah & Essays
Moshi
"There are only 3 exceptions to the rule that a scholar must not depart from the literal truth"


What are these exceptions?
existwhere?
Where is this quote from?

To answer a fool according to his folly?
Moshi
QUOTE (existwhere? @ Feb 25 2008, 11:06 PM) *
Where is this quote from?

To answer a fool according to his folly?


Sorry omitted the subheading. It's from Mesillas Yesharim Ch.11 quoting B.M. 23b
Yehudi
QUOTE (Moshi @ Feb 25 2008, 09:41 PM) *
"There are only 3 exceptions to the rule that a scholar must not depart from the literal truth"


What are these exceptions?



Bava Metiza 23b-24a
ליה דאמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל בהני תלת מילי עבידי רבנן דמשנו במלייהו במסכת ובפוריא
ובאושפיזא
For Rab Judah said in the name of Samuel: In the following three matters learned men do conceal the truth: In matters of a tractate,bed and hospitality.

melech
QUOTE (Moshi @ Feb 25 2008, 09:41 PM) *
"There are only 3 exceptions to the rule that a scholar must not depart from the literal truth"


What are these exceptions?
To expand on what Yehdudi said,
1. to deny you know a mesechet really well
2. to deny you slept in a particular bed [extrapolated to Lori's Rule that you can lie about anything you think is private]
3. to deny that a host treated you really well to someone unscrupulous who would take advantage of that host.
Moshi
QUOTE (melech @ Feb 26 2008, 06:26 AM) *
To expand on what Yehdudi said,
1. to deny you know a mesechet really well


for reasons of humility? can this be extrapolated to other areas where you're being humble?

QUOTE
2. to deny you slept in a particular bed [extrapolated to Lori's Rule that you can lie about anything you think is private]


hmm.

QUOTE
3. to deny that a host treated you really well to someone unscrupulous who would take advantage of that host.



what about when the host treated you poorly?
melech
QUOTE (Moshi @ Feb 26 2008, 07:30 AM) *
for reasons of humility? can this be extrapolated to other areas where you're being humble?
hmm.

what about when the host treated you poorly?

I have no idea. But those aren't the only examples where it is permitted to lie. Rather, those are three examples where torah scholars would habitually lie.
ArtScroll's Journey to Virtue has a section entitled, "When It Is Permitted to Alter the Truth".
Moshi
QUOTE (melech @ Feb 26 2008, 07:39 AM) *
I have no idea. But those aren't the only examples where it is permitted to lie. Rather, those are three examples where torah scholars would habitually lie.
ArtScroll's Journey to Virtue has a section entitled, "When It Is Permitted to Alter the Truth".


Thanks!
joshman
i once heard a tape from Rav Avigdor Miller Zt'L who said that if you are in a situation where your honor is at stake it is permitted to lie.
i don't know the source for this but if i remember correctly that is what he said.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.