STAR-K CERTIFICATION PRESS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

February 26, 2008



STAR-K Announces The Launch of The Institute of Halacha

by Margie Pensak



The Mishna teaches us, “Appoint for yourself a Rav”, a Torah guide, from whom you can acquire clarity through wisdom. But, what happens when you do not have a personal Rav, because you live in Fargo, North Dakota? Or, if you live in a large Jewish community and have a Rav, but time is of the essence for your halachic query? How often have you exasperatingly attempted to contact your Rav, only to find out that he was unreachable because he was in the middle of giving a shiur, attending a bris, or officiating at a wedding or a funeral?



STAR-K CERTIFICATION realizes that there is no substitute for a person’s own Rav. However, to help remedy such situations, it is pleased to announce the creation of its Institute of Halacha, as a public service. The opening of a general halachic division, within its kashrus agency, depicts Star-K’s uniqueness and belief that the world of kosher extends beyond typical milk and meat issues. Through the years, the agency’s Kashrus Hotline has answered generic halachic questions, in addition to inquiries about the kosher status of foods and its certified Sabbath mode appliances, from kosher consumers the world over. The formation of a separate, official division within STAR-K, testifies to the overwhelming need of such an institute.



The director of the Institute of Halacha will be Harav Mordechai Frankel, who will serve under the guidance of Harav Moshe Heinemann, STAR-K’s Rabbinic Administrator. The Institute of Halacha will also serve as a resource for rabbanim, who may call Harav Frankel to discuss general halachic matters.



“Harav Frankel is particularly suited for such a position,” feels Rav Heinemann,” with his years of experience, acting as a posek in the absence of both myself and Rav Yaakov Hopfer.”



“I have confidence that Harav Frankel will be able to do the perfect job to answer all the questions necessary according to the Shulchan Aruch,” says Rav Heinemann,” in filling this tremendous need.”



When one’s own Rav is not available, shailos may be called into the Institute of Halacha, 410-484-4110, Monday-Thursday, 2-5 p.m., Friday, 11 a.m.-2 p.m., or e-mailed to: Halacha@star-k.org.



Star-K Certification

410-484-4110

410-653-9294 fax

www.star-k.org

(A giant sarcastic) great. The homogenization of Jewry under the rightist banner of the Star-K is nearly complete. Hurrah, hurrah!

I dare you to call and ask if you're permitted to read the Baltimore Jewish Times.

I will in 2 hrs when the lines open.

We somehow got a free subscription (I hope they've cancelled us by now) and we're not even allowed to bring it into our home to throw it out.
(But don't tell anyone, because we sometimes read it in the apartment lobby.)


Um, not sure what 2 hours is going to do....
Does this mean one can't call the Star-K like in the past at whatever time and only now at these hours?

Nobody is forcing you to call the hotline.

what do you mean you're not allowed?


I misread, you can only call between 2-5. I guess you can ask kashrus questions at any time but general halacha questions only from 2-5/

No, but it's the principle of "build it and they will come." It makes life easy and many people will call and then the Star-K policies slowly become what more and more people are doing until it's the majority and if you don't do it then you're not frum.

What I especially do not like is the part where rabbonim can call and get direction from the Star-K. It is basically the beginning of the Star-K being the primary halachic decisor in Baltimore. And, once "most" people are doing something, even local/shul rabbis who might give you alternate opinions will be loathe to go against them.

Like I said, welcome to the homogenization of (Baltimore) Jewry.

the beinning??
the Star-K is already the primary halachic in baltimore. The biggest rabbanim are R' Heinemann and R' Hopfer, both of which are the Star-K. how is this hotline any different than the way things were run before it?

I really don’t see that happening. It’s not like everyone in Baltimore follows the Star K regarding kashrus.

They seem to be encouraging people to find their own Rav to ask shaylos to. This is just an alternative for those who don’t have a Rav.

I believe I know who Rabbi Frankel is. If he is who I think he is, he is a very soft-spoken, unassuming man, who would not be the one you put in charge of a program to homogenize a community.

he's a great person and definitely knows his stuff but doesn't shove it down your throat.

i agree that he wouldn't lead an army of homogenizers to star-k victory over the rest of the world's halachic authority.

Formalization of the process. Look, the rabbis at the Star-K are very knowledgeable and have helped the kosher community (bagged lettuce). I object to setting yourself up as the halachic decisor for the city (yes, they will say it is not so, but we all know what the eventuality of this will be will be).

With the small hours they have, it seems to be just some putty to fill the gap since many rabbonim are busy and can't answer questions in the middle of the day. This seems like a bdi eved.

I don’t see how setting up a hotline will suddenly make them the ‘halachic decisors’ of the community. It’s as if you are saying that a shul rabbi currently would have no problem having a difference of opinion with Rabbi Heineman on halachic issues but once a hotline is in place, the rabbi will be more hesitant to disagree.

I personally think the hotline is a good idea. It's providing a service for anyone who needs/wants it.

Hypothetical shabbos table with guests - you are discussing a certain halachic or hashkafik issue and the two people in disagreement go back and forth on the merits of each side. They both cite their shul rabbi as having said "such-and-such" in a speech the other week and they cite some stuff they saw on the internet. Finally, the both agree they will not convince the other, but so convinced are they of their opinion they agree to make a "gentleman's bet" and let a call to the Star-K break their impasse.

I belive conversations like this already occur frequently when it comes to kashrus (or pesach and their lovely booklet). This is just another step. After these two gentlemen above find out the Star-K ruling it is conceivable that they will both behave according to their received instruction. They will act this way and everyone else who had a similar conversation during shabbos lunch will do the same thing. This is (one way) how influence spreads and homogenization occurs.

Eventually, it is somehow ascertained that "most" people are doing something and it is the new minhag of the city - applicable to everyone. At that point no shul rabbi would likely counsel other opinions.

That's silly. There usually can be differences of opinion in halacha, and for 2 people to make a "bet" and decide some central power will be who they go by, even though they already have separate piskei halacha from their respective rabbis, is just foolish. IMHO of course. Once you have a psak, you don't need to "settle" and see which is better -- yours or your friends'.

that's dumb. no one told these people to ignore their own rabbis and call the hotline.
if each rabbi says something else, obviously there are two opinions and neither is necessarily incorrect.

It's an example. Forget about the friendly argument. It's the same thing with their pesach booklet. It is something easy to use so most people use it and it becomes standard practice. Calling a phone number is a lot easier than trying to get in touch with your rabbi or having to go to shul and wait to talk with him. I have a feeling that a lot of people will use this service.

Is that like watching TV at the in-laws?

FYI, contrary to what people would be inclined to think, the Capital-K is a lot more stringent than Star-k. Rabbi Animer does not agree with a bunch of the leniencys that Rabbi Heinemann relies upon.

Have you ever experienced a meal with this kind of interaction? Have you experienced discussions like this? I never have.

Are you saying that if there was no hotline, people would just drop the dispute and continue behaving they way they had before but now that there is a hotline, they will pursue an answer to the dispute? Because the hotline is more accessible than the Rav?

Would people who believe so strongly in the opinion of their Rav that they are getting into arguments, suddenly drop the pak of their Rav because of what they heard on the hotline?

What are you basing this on? I'm really not seeing how something like this would ever occur.

If anything, it seems that the hotline is more of an inconvenience than asking your Rav. If somebody has a halachic shailah at 5:30 PM, they will have to wait until 2 the next day. Any Rav who I have called with a question has either answered immediately or called back within a few hours.

Ok. There might be people who don't get calls returned right away or their question is not so important that it needs to be answered right away. The convenience is that if you call in those hours you know that you will speak with someone rather than potentially having to leave a message and be called back later.

I think there might also be a lot of people who don't really have someone they go to with all their questions. Many people don't go to a specific shul regularly, or even if they do they are not close with that rabbi. They could turn to this service.

You're being sarcastic, I'm assuming?

It seems that if this line is being manned by one Rabbi, it might take some time before you speak to someone from the hotline as well.

Either way, you are saying that it is these individuals, who have halachic questions between 2 PM and 5 PM, who don’t have a Rav to ask their questions to because they don’t daven at a shul regularly, who will be responsible for homogenizing the community?

I don’t see it.

what kind of a newspaper is baltimore jewish times?

As of recently, it has become a bit of a tabloid magazine.

I think there are pros and cons.

On the one hand, many, many people simply don't have an accessible rabbi to ask questions. Even if they do, it can mean trying to corner him at a kiddush while he answers standing on one foot if you manage to catch his eye. Even if you so manage, there are often questions that one is uncomfortable asking one's rabbi for any one of a variety of reasons.
In that sense, any of these services I think are really great, whether it's a phone-in hotline like this, or ask the webbie rebbie on the Internet, or the Yoatzot Halachah. I don't have a problem with something that increases accessibility to answers for those who opt to avail themselves of the optional service.

On the other hand, I think it's not ideal - what a far away rabbi, and one who doesn't know you and the particulars of your personal situation, thinks isn't that relevant and there's a huge risk for inaccuracy. I think what ends up happening is that for many issues, one receives a generic answer. And I think as a general rule these generic answers tend to be simplistic and strict, just as ArtScroll halachah books, and most others as well, tend to be the lowest common denominator.

I also think that the issue here is the Slide to the Right. I agree with the comments that the Rightist halachic views tend to become the norm when there are hotlines like this. I reject the arguments that nobody is obligated to call or to listen to these views. It doesn't work like that. Which is why regardless of my own personal standards with regard to kashrut or mixing of genders, community standards in Toronto for all skew to the Right. For a variety of reasons, some good and some bad, but regardless of the mechanism of action and the reasons for the Slide to the Right, it's becoming inexorable and these hotlines are yet another manifestation of it.

So should these hotlines not exist? I think the necessity outweighs the cons. I just wish there were more similar services provided by the Leftist communities as well, but they are basically cowered into subservience and obeisance to the Rightists. But I think the fears that these hotlines facilitate the Slide to the Right are well founded.

(to Flickster)

what does it mean, in context?

(this is what happens when members are anonymous - i saw that no one was posting at the same time with me and didn't bother quoting)

Off topic: Wouldn't reading it in the lobby be worse? People would see you reading it and might assume that it's okay (or would know that it's not okay and might think less of you). Better to do something in private, I say.



Do you think that people would use it is a convincing argument for it not to exist?



While I agree with most of your post, I'm not sure having a Leftist hotline would do anything. The person would sit down and think to themselves do I want to call "Rabbi Left" or call "Rabbi Right"? That sounds a lot like a. heter shopping and b. people would look down on those who call R. Left's hotline.

Eh, not really a lobby...more like a foyer...there are only 4 apartments in the building. No one has seen it...it's more of a flipping through on the way to bring it out to the dumpster.
(I don't really care what people think of me.)

How so?

They seem to be more interested in representing issues as controversies and scandals than actually doing accurate research. (And I'm not even referring to the 'Molestation' articles.) I have spoken with many a people who have been quoted in recent articles who have had their quotes misrepresented to fit with the agenda of the writer.

Also, the quality of the writing has gone done significantly.

Basically, people are picking up the Jewish Times these days to find out what new 'community controversy' is being reported.

Maybe they want to know the halachah rather than OPS social strictures.


Probably. But at least the Rightist view wouldn't be the default correct one. And the Rightists are always going to be treating the Leftists as beneath their religious contempt anyway. So we might as well stop pretending and just set up separate communities with separate hashgachot and rabbinical authorities.

I don't understand who's not allowing you to bring this newspaper into your home, and who you are trying to fool by leafing through it in the lobby?

Ok, good thing I don't read that shtus.

I'm not judging, I just would think that if you're careful not to bring it into your house, flipping through it in a foyer would be even more problematic.



I think my problem with the hotline(s) illustrates why it's important to have your own rabbi. If there are hotlines, I might (would) be tempted to call hotline R for some things and hotline L for others (or call a hotline rather than my LOR). Probably it would (totally coincidentally) match who would be more likely to give me the answer I want to hear.

If you have 1 real life local rabbi, you follow that same rabbi for all your questions and that's that.

I very strongly suspect that in fact that's what a great many people do anyway - they call Rabbi X for kashrut questions, Rabbi Y for THM questions, and Rabbi Z to know which school they should send their kid.
"One rabbi and I always hold by him" I think is a myth for a great many people for a variety of reasons.

Probably true.

On the other hand, a lot of the time, it's less a matter of Rabbis X-Z will agree with me and more that Rabbi is the local kashrus expert and Rabbi Z is a respected educator who knows the various schools very well.

(For instance, my LOR openly defers to another LOR for kashrus because the other rabbi is a famous expert. So, on the shul webpage where it gives the rabbi's contact info for shailos, it says "For kashrus, call Rabbi X at . . .")

Although one never knows with people, I assume she's aware of the apparent...lack of complete consistency...in what she revealed. But I don't think we should be "attacking" her for being honest. One of the advantages of a semi-anonymous forum like h.com is that we can be honest, warts and all. I'm sure we all do things that don't stand up to scrutiny. We all have ta'avot and anyway, life's complicated.


ETA: Post edited. Thank you, Arizona.

100% agreed.

Right, there's that, where a particular rabbi is known to be a baki in a certain area.
There's also for example the case in my shul where the rebbetzin passed away a number of years ago and quite a number of women are uncomfortable asking THM questions of the rabbi so many ask elsewhere.

But even beyond those examples, I think we look to different rabbis for different issues and it's...hashkafah driven [that's a polite way of saying we anticipate the answers].

(and among my ta'avot is pushing an agenda. but you're right, of course. post edited.)

Right. And this leads us into a whole nuther discussion about "If I'm asking Rabbi X because I think he'll say what I want to hear (and I'm specifically wording it to maximize this), why bother asking at all?"

Indeed, although sometimes rabbis can be surprising. But I'm sort of assuming a case where we are inclined to ask a certain rabbi because we anticipate a certain type of response, without actually knowing for absolute certaintude his response.
For example, I might ask a question of Rabbi X who scores a 6.7 on the Rightist Index rather than Rabbi Y who scores a 9.4 on the Rightist Index, without actually knowing what Rabbi X is going to say but I anticipate that his general approach will be more in line with mine.
On the other hand, I may ask Rabbi Y a question having to do with hilchot tefillah where either his Rightist Index doesn't matter, or where I am comfortable with a more Rightist approach for whatever reason.

I think it's a delicate balance.

If you say, "I'm hashkafically X so I'll ask Rabbi X my question" that seems fine.

If you say, "I want X heter so I'll ask Rabbi X who gives them out like Planned Parenthood" that doesn't seem so fine.

I think a litmus test for me is if I can substitute an ethnic group for X, it's more valid.

"I'm Satmar/Persian/Yekke so I'll ask a Satmar/Persian/Yekke rabbi" makes sense but "I've heard that the Satmar/Persian/Yekke rabbi will probably say what I want to hear so I'll ask him" doesn't.

In a perfect world, maybe. But
1. the reality is that many of us are not entirely loyal to a singular orthodox rabbi [I was speaking with one of the yoatzot halachah ladies, for instance, and seh was describing the incredible cross section of people who ask them "shaylos", including the Extreme Rightists - when push comes to shove, suddenly they are acceptable, we just can't openly admit it].
2. But rabbis themselves don't ask one rabbi - no rabbi always holds like rabbi X himself. Rather, he'll rule like RSZA on this, and like the IM on that, and the MB on something else, depending on...a whole wack of things.