Do you know from whom/where your rav has smicha? Does it matter to you? If you have grown children, does it matter to you from whom/where their rav has smicha?

Smicha is completely irrelevant today (except for getting a job)....

Many have it that shouldn't, and many that should never bother to get it.....

Agreed, but would you ask shailas of someone who has no smicha?

Does it matter to your from whom/where their physician received her degree?


Yes, in many cases, depending how one defines "shaila".

True. I have never asked neither my physicians nor my rabbanim.


Case one: psak on a subject that has plenty of machloket.
Case two: straight forward halacha.
Case three: hashkafah, hanhaga.
Case four: teaching a chassan.

1. Maybe not, but certainly to get a sense of the issues. But it it's a subject that has plenty of machloket then I would need to ask my singular orthodox rabbi anyway. I couldn't, for example, ask a faraway gadol even if the faraway gadol has impeccable smichah.
2. Yes. The catch is that [almost] doesn't exist. Rare is the answer that doesn't start, "It depends whom ask but...". And if it doesn't depend whom one asks and is so simple, why am I asking anyone and simply not looking it up myself? Unless asking the non-semichah person is simply the equivalent of looking up something in a book. Which it is.
3. Yes. You have never yapped with anyone at the park and talked about what you consider appropriate or inappropriate?
4. Yes. A mother who teaches her daughter inyanei THM has semichah? I'd be duly impressed.

Rav (?) Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt"l did not have smicha.

I have a friend who is not ordained, but I'm very comfortable asking him how the Beth Yoseph rules on a certain matter, because he knows his material.

And how many 'rebbetzins' don't quite fit their title either!

Agreed. I think I only asked one shaila of a gadol, and that was because my posek at the time insisted.



I think the look-it-up-myself sort and the ask-my-friend-who-looks-it-up-her/himself sort are two different sorts. And if you (I) stick with one shita, then it can be simple. Or relatively so. Depending on which shita you look up....

I'm thinking more of a case where a "Rabbi Ploni" doesn't actually have smicha, and people ask him questions in halacha, thinking they're getting more than looking it up themselves, or think they're getting out of looking it up themselves by "asking a LOR".


Oh, no, you think someone took my yapping seriously?


Around here, I'd be impressed to hear of a mother teaching her daughter inyanei THM instead of shipping her out to a kalla teacher.

Actually, this is probably the best example. It's not the certificate or the title, but who's behind it. With all due respect to the wonderful women in my neighborhood who give kalla lessons, I wouldn't want to entrust my daughter's THM chinuch to them.

Really?


Rebbetzins don't often get smicha.
What does one call a poseket? Poseket Sarah Dina or Rebbetzin Sarah Dina?

So what do you mean by smicha? A program like RIETS? HTC? Jacob Joseph? Or a 1 year program in learning kashrut (or whatever topic) with smicha at the end?

And then there's the question if a rabbi's psak is divinely inspired or simply a result of experience and knowledge.


Regardless, kallah teachers don't have semichah yet many rely on the "psakim" of their kallah teachers.


Dr. Deena Zimmerman? http://www.torahinmotion.org/spkrs_crnr/fa...naZimmerman.htm

SO, can non-smicha-ed individuals pronounce psakim? If not, then why are people asking shailahs?

Again, depends how one defines pesakim and she'alot and if same requires some sort of ru'ach ha-kodesh. On the one extreme, is a rabbi the equivalent of a glorified Bar Ilan CD or the other extreme and a rabbi is the equivalent of a kohein who is the only one empowered to make someone a tzara'at regardless of the evidence?

What is RIETS? HTC? Jacob Joseph?

Absolutely if they were competent... And having smeicha is no sign of competence because as was mentioned you can do it mail order these days... My level of trust in them is not at all affected by whether they have smeicha or not.....

How many Roeshei Yeshiva officially have smeicha???

RIETS
HTC
Jacob Joseph was located in LES.

Thank you and are these considered official smicha? Or are these the type where you just get the title rabbi but no one trusts these people to pasken?

I'm confused if you are using this to connote something positive or negative. Can you please clarify?

FYI, what do you consider 'official smicha'? What type to consider where a rabbi gets a title but no one trusts him to pasken?

The programs mentioned are multi-year programs, so in a way I was comparing those to the type of smicha were a person has smicha in a certain area only, such as kashrut.


[Remember individuals can do or say what they want- they may be musmachim of a particular yeshiva, but they don't necessarily hold by everything the yeshiva may- or use the name of the yeshiva where they learned to give them credibility]

I don't know (are those the only 3 official ones in the country?)
I have no idea, that's why this thread intrigues me.
[ok]

Back to the same issue, what do you mean by 'official'? Is it curriculum based? Is it based on length of time learning? Is dependent on hashkafah?

Is one smicha more valid than another?

If a man has smicha in kashrut, can he [really] pasken on issues outside of his smicha area?

meaning do they get some piece of paper? certificate?
Are these curriculum based?
What is the legnth of time?
Is it dependant on hashkafah?

I don't know. That's what I'm asking you (general, you, but also specific you)

I would assume not, but that's what I'm trying to understand.

This place gives smichas:
http://www.shemayisrael.com/smicha/

I am considering doing it, just for the sake of organizing my learning. If in a highly unlikely scenario I do complete this program, do I get to be called "Rabbi"?

Yes, you do. They take the same Rabbanut exams as others in Medinat Yisrael Reishit Tzemichat Ge'ulateinu.

Surely you'd expect your local rebbetzin to live up to her duties, ie. being the rabbi's wife. More is expected of her than any other woman in that shul's community. That is what was meant by "her title". I'd have thought that was easily understood.
Obviously rebbetzins don't get semicha, unless you associate yourself with reform/conservative type communities.

Good question. Not sure what I mean, because I have never checked out what smicha my rabbanim have.




In Israel, there are more rabbis, and thus rebbetzins, in a shul than you can usually count. I've forgotten the shul oriented culture (one of the main reasons we made aliyah, frankly).

And there's the crux of the problem again. Who is this rabbi that his wife gets the title rebbetzin? You seem to be implying that there are rabbis worth their title who are married to women who don't live up to the title rebbetzin. But I seem to not understand you very well.

Yes, and as far as I am concerned, his answers hold more strength than most rabbis out there.

I've also thought about it, as a motivational factor to learn. Just as in martial arts, where students appreciate advancing from one belt level to the next, it may be helpful if someone has a structure to his learning.

However, I don't think I would want to ever use the title "rabbi," for two reasons. First, I don't feel all that holy, and while I certainly know there are non-holy people out there who have and use the title "rabbi," I think it would be nice if those who use the title were holy men. Second, I fear that I could learn this narrow range of material and pass the exam, while still having learning skills that are far inferior to many others who don't have the title.

those "psakim" are essentially the psakim of kallah teachers' rabbonim, from what i understand.



cool, we'll get to have Rabbi Moshi soon

I don't think I'm holy enough to NOT use the title should I have one!! Don't have that kind of humility, not even close

It seems to me that a Rabbinic pedigree ought to consist not just of where rabbi X received semicha, but also where the rabbi who gave him semicha got his semicha, and so on, going back as far as possible.

We may be in agreement over this, i just don't get what you're getting at here. Yes, i am implying that there are rabbi's that have worked to get their title, and deserve it too, whilst the 'rebbetzin' has simply been married to him, and received her title. Whether the man deserves to be called 'rabbi' or not,he has gone and done something to get that title. His wife hasn't, yet hopefully the typical shul rebbetzin would live up to the title, as i mentioned in my first post.

The problem is that the wife of a rabbi is sometimes qualified to be a 'rebetzin' and some times is not, and sometimes has the inclination to be one and sometimes not. As well, sometimes a woman married to a non-rabbi is qualified and inclined to fill that role. Traditionally the wife was assumed to be a rebbetzin, but I'm not sure that's always true any more. Some wives don't want that role, and some aren't qualified. On the other hand, you can have a qualified and learned woman whose husband is not a rabbi.

And hence the call in some circles for some sort of designation for women independent of the rabbinic status, or lack thereof, of their husbands.

Isn't "rebbitzin" simply the title given to a rabbi's wife? In the Sephardic and Mizrahi world, "rabbanith" is simply that, a title.

Surely if they were that qualified and learned they would have bagged a rabbi to marry, or at the very least, failing that, they would have endeavored to bring their husband up to their standards. If neither applies then I guess we have to call into question how qualified and learned the woman is.

Actually, my point was at least partly that some men have not done "something" to get the title. They just append it. Case in point, I have never asked my rabbanim where they were ordained, and which kind of smicha they have. My first rav may indeed only have had smicha in kashrus for all I know (though he's a big Talmid Chacham in the opinion of just about everyone who knows him).

My other point was that "shul rebbetzin" is only relevant in shul oriented communities. Here in Israel we tend to not be as shul centric (even while attending possibly more often), our communities tend to be yeshiva oriented, or neighborhood oriented, or ummm, community oriented.

Otherwise, yes we agree that some rabbi's "deserve" the title, and others don't, and anyone who has appended "rabbi" to his name automatically appends to his wife's name "rebbetzin" ...

Which brings me back to my main point, which is that when someone has the title "rabbi", we seem to have certain expectations of him, whether that may be his wife living up to her title or the piece of paper that may have allowed him to append "rabbi" to his name.



Yes.


What this thread has helped me see is that I have never really clarified what I consider to be "rabbinic" qualifying education/certification. And no matter what definition I would give myself, there would be many exceptions on both sides of the equation (those with it who don't deserve the title rabbi, and those without it who certainly do).