How important?
What factors does it depend upon?

If you move or live in an area with a disputed eruv, how will you determine whether or not to hold by it?

Very important.


Ages of kids. When the kids are all grown and out of the house [please God] it will be far less important, maybe even uncessary. Except: The grandchildren. And if my wife has her way, all the kids will live in neighboring houses from us anyway.


The impact on the shidduch prospects of the children and nieces and nephews will be the primary determining factor, as it should be regarding any and all decisions one makes in any area of personal behavior and practice.

At this point in my life it makes no difference, but whenever I do have kids one day, I imagine it would be really inconvenient not to be able to go out with them when they're young and not walking.

I would say very important since I don't know how I would get to shul without tissues in my pocket during winter.

Very Important, but B"H just about everywhere in Israel has an eruv.....

Minimally.
IF I want to live in that community, in general.
Ask a rav.


Will mothers never stop hoping for that?

Anyways, I think grandkids you will want your children to hold of the eruv. What grandpa/zaidee doesn't want to hear a knock on his door shabbos afternoon, to be pushed down by a bombardment of little people (that you can send home when diaper gets dirty or start to cry ) all vying for your attention?

Important since I'm homebound for all of shabbos without it.

We ask in cases of a disputed eruv.

Given that most Ashkenazi erubin are suspect according to Sephardic and Mizrahi standards, I'm not really swayed one way or another. In general, I try not to rely on them at all.

I was just in a city in Israel about a month ago. All the frum (MO*) people there were carrying in it, so I figured it was ok. Nevertheless, I try not to carry in any eruv. I happened to be walking on shabbos and saw the eruv. It was totally pussul, but I did not believe a whole community of MO people to be sinners, so I assumed there must me SOME shitta that says its ok. After shabbos I took a picture and sent it to a few people asking if there is any opinion that holds this is a kosher eruv, and they all said NO.

*(that was for you Melech)

Since I've never really lived in a community with an eruv I've never become accustomed to having one, so I dont' miss it. I'm just used to staying in on Shabbos (great excuse since I'm anti-social anyway.)

I grew up without an eiruv and never thought twice about it. Just like you can't cook on Shabbos but still made do with delicious hot food, you had a normal Shabbos without carrying. However, it made things easier that there was an eiruv in our building (which had lots of other frum Jews) and more importantly, one leading to a beautiful park in the backyard. I'm sure there were frustrating times for parents of young children, especially if they wanted to attend a social function or whatnot. I know there were stories of little kids who would just refuse to walk home in the middle of the sidewalk and plop themselves down. People had to sing and dance and bribe just to get them down the block to their house.

Now that I live in a community with an eiruv and have a baby, I see how nice an eiruv really is and am definitely getting used to not checking my pockets. Being able to get out with a stroller and kids is a nice thing to do. But I still don't think I would davka choose not to live in a community just because it lacks an eiruv. Although, truth be told, I can't really think of too many frum communities that we would settle in that don't have an eiruv, outside of Brooklyn or Manhattan.

Good question!

We live on the border of two eruvim. One rabbi holds that the transition between the eruvim is acceptable, another one does not offer a psak because he says he lacks information about the 2nd eruv.

So, I have no idea what the proper thing to do is.

Thats a slight problem here if you walk to other areas, you can't always walk the short way as the eiruv stops and continues later on.

The problem with living in a community with an eiruv you get used to it and wehn you travel you take for granted that there is an eiruv which there isn't always

Willfull ignorance? Why doesn't the rabbi simply gather enough information to say kosher or not kosher? What does this even mean, "lacks information"? Or is that a euphemism for, "they are sinners, but I don't want to come out and say it"?

I am wondering the same thing. We once had a similar question about another eruv and our rav said 'go to r' so&so he knows the details about that eruv and can tell you what to do about it.'

sad reality for me as well. not fun for mothers with little kids.

I couldn't imagine not holding by the eruv. Doesn't that, for all practical purposes, mean the mom is basically shut in for years?

Either the other rabbi who is in charge of his eruv isn't very cooperative, or, yes, it is a euphemism for what you said. Those are the two possibilities. My suspicion is that it is the latter. He doesn't want to cause makhlokes by casting doubt on the other eruv's kashrus. It's a tough job to be a rabbi.

What was the issue exactly?

Are you sure what you were looking at was part of the Erev. Maybe it was an old border and a new border extended out somewhere else?

Ditto, unless I install one of those keyless Shabbos locks.

yes.



you don't use those pin/broch thingies?

It was along the beach. When I first noticed it, it was done properly (attached to the top of some eruv polls), as it went toward the populated part of the beach the eruv transitioned onto the preexisting lamp posts, but it was not tied on top. Rather, it was tied AROUND the side of the top part of the lamppost - I can show you a picture if you want.

Those are usually even more problematic than the eruv....

well I have a reclusive personality in any case so being shut in is a good excuse for me to hibernate all shabbos. Although that's probably just denial because whenever my current youngest child is ambulatory (roughly every other year) I do manage to get out some on Shabbos.

Interesting. That does sound problematic. Did you tell the Rav? Perhaps it wasn't build originally like that but fell down and the person who fixed it was not so knowledgeable.

In Yerushalayim there are (very coolly designed) standard special erev polls that are used and avoid all these issues.

Not at all at the moment.
Ask my rav who to ask.

If you start a tehillim group in your house, everyone will come out to you.

No no no! For someone as anti-social as me, hosting a women's group is even worse than going out. I never host groups in my house.

why?

I dont know who the Rav is. I doubt that it fell down because it was like that all the way up the coast.

If it did fall down, that just reenforces why I dont use a city wide eruv, because the people checking and fixing them often dont know what they are doing.

In Israel, isn't the city Rabbinate usually responsible for eruvin?

Anyway does anyone have thoughts about my dilemma of 2 eruvs and 2 rabbis?

I normally don't wear pins.

Does anyone even do the whole pin/tie clip thing anymore?

It's not so important to me. I haven't used it until now, you get used to it.

Where I live the whole area is a disputed eruv... The rabanim who were envolved in creating it tell people they can use it, however they wouldn't use it themselves.

Also a common practice seems to be, that the wife uses it and the husband doesn't. I guess this way if it's questionable he can be makpid and she can get out of the house(?)

I have no idea.


I suspect you are referring to the SS eruv and the D.C. eruv?
If that is the case, I suspect what melech said is correct, that it is a euphemism for "I dont hold of that rabbi/eruv" or at least that he does not have confidence in the knowledge of the individuals that were assigned to regularly check it - or perhaps that the problem is that it is not regularly checked at all.

I understand that, but if Rabbi X isn't sure how well Rabbi Y's the eruv is checked, and therefore doesn't want to pasken, and Rabbi Y says that my eruv is checked very well you can hold by it, what is Moshi to do?

ask rabbi X if he knows of anyone who has more info on rabbi y's eruv.

I guess it matters who you trust more.
If you have trust and confidence in Rabbi Y then I would say carry in his eruv, unless the general population and other Rabbonim from all the neighborhoods is also saying the same thing as Rabbi X - that you cant trust him.

OR do you own investigation into the eruv, learn all the halochos, check it out yourself, find out who is regularly checking it, and when and what parts are being checked.

But if Rabbi Y says it's kosher, why shouldn't that be enough for me?

Because your local orthodox rabbi doesn't have enough information about rabbi Y to know if he can be relied on to be machtee et harabim?

they are both my local orthodox rabbis.

If you ask your LOR a halachic questions and you follow what he tells you to do, if he's wrong the aveira is on him, not on you.

How well do you know Rabbi Y? Is he really YOUR rabbi, the same way X is?

(I dont think X is that right wing/machmir, so if he does not trust it, it would be worth investigating)

Look, I'm not best friends with either of them, I don't give them quizzes, nor do I bombard them with questions. If I have a question, I ask whoever is most readily available. They are both great rabbis, in very different ways.

Rabbi X doesn't say he doesn't trust it, he says that he doesn't know and doesn't want to pasken based on what he doesn't know. If he says it that way, I don't think it's appropriate to second-guess him or put words into his mouth...

i did, before i got married (with two keys). i was thinking of getting one for the downstairs door now (i live in a building), cause the neighbor who always left his key there to use, recently moved.

what about a shabbos key belt?

The ones I've seen were all ugly.

Besides, I don't wear a belt, either. How many women do these days?

Right, cuz its much better not to leave youre house then going out with an ugly shabbos belt. the ways i look at it is that its like yellow tzitzis, sure they look ugly, but the ppl whos opinion matter know that its frayed and yellow from use.

OK, I asked Rabbi Y today, and he explained the situation to me, which has nothing to do with not trusting another rabbi.

The bottom line is that it is fine to carry.

What is the situation?

I'm not sure if it is appropriate to discuss the specifics on a public board, feel free to PM if you need to know.

I think that was what saved Dathan and Aviram temporarily. Korach "didn't hold from the Eiruv", so the wifes were all locked up and you know the rest of the story.

The sad thing is that some people sincerely believe that there is a viable opinion of "not holding of any Eruv" (as opposed to just not using it for personal reasons), and do not realize that there not holding of Eruv is probably worse then not holding of Techias haMeisim.