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Goldfish
There's a woman at my work who shudders at the thought of visiting Israel. She's a somewhat knowledgeable Conservative middle-aged woman. Her daughter went on Birthright last year and it absolutely terrified her to let her go.

Is there anything I can say to this woman to convince her that Israel is safe? Apparently my having visited seven times and gone to school there for a year wasn't proof enough.
Pinchas
You could make Aliyah.
doodlehead
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Feb 28 2008, 04:23 PM) *
There's a woman at my work who shudders at the thought of visiting Israel. She's a somewhat knowledgeable Conservative middle-aged woman. Her daughter went on Birthright last year and it absolutely terrified her to let her go.

Is there anything I can say to this woman to convince her that Israel is safe? Apparently my having visited seven times and gone to school there for a year wasn't proof enough.

What is she so afraid of?

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Pinchas
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Feb 29 2008, 02:24 AM) *
What is she so afraid of?

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Media hype.

Or maybe Taxi drivers.
Goldfish
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Feb 28 2008, 07:24 PM) *
What is she so afraid of?

Terrorism.
Dovid
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Feb 28 2008, 04:23 PM) *
Is there anything I can say to this woman to convince her that Israel is safe? Apparently my having visited seven times and gone to school there for a year wasn't proof enough.


Would she hesitate to fly to Miami? Well this year, over 3,500 people will be killed driving on Florida's roads. Israel is alot safer.
krumlikeapretzel
QUOTE (Dovid @ Mar 2 2008, 09:20 PM) *
Would she hesitate to fly to Miami? Well this year, over 3,500 people will be killed driving on Florida's roads. Israel is alot safer.
I'm not even going to venture into the terrorism stuff, but the way Israelis drive I strongly the number of fatalities per ride-hour (total time spent on a moving vehicle per person per hour) is much higher in Israel than in Florida.
doodlehead
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Feb 28 2008, 10:19 PM) *
Terrorism.

No one is safe ph34r.gif

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EdfromNachlaot
Well, you could come visit yourself.

Or you could have her sign up on one of the local Israeli yahoo Groups to speak to American Ex-pats who live here.

Or you could flat out tell her that it is a highly irrational fear, and by facing it and overcoming it, not only will she be a better person, but she might even have a good time.
Goldfish
QUOTE (EdfromNachlaot @ Mar 5 2008, 09:12 AM) *
Well, you could come visit yourself.

Have done. I love saying, "I've been to Israel like ten times and I'm still here, aren't I?" Hasn't convinced a single person yet.

QUOTE
Or you could have her sign up on one of the local Israeli yahoo Groups to speak to American Ex-pats who live here.

That's a nice idea, but she wouldn't do it.

QUOTE
Or you could flat out tell her that it is a highly irrational fear, and by facing it and overcoming it, not only will she be a better person, but she might even have a good time.

Hmm...... not bad. I'm going to have to think about this.
krumlikeapretzel
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Feb 28 2008, 03:23 PM) *
There's a woman at my work who shudders at the thought of visiting Israel. She's a somewhat knowledgeable Conservative middle-aged woman. Her daughter went on Birthright last year and it absolutely terrified her to let her go.

Is there anything I can say to this woman to convince her that Israel is safe? Apparently my having visited seven times and gone to school there for a year wasn't proof enough.

I guess the "You can't speak Lashon Hara about EY" thing is to blame. She's convinced you're hiding something to avoid saying lashon hara. Maybe say, "oh EY is perfectly safe, but the summer is boiling hot and miserable," to convince her you're saying the truth...
Natanel
I actually quite enjoyed the summer in Jerusalem. It was a dry heat.

I always found it funny when by people try to play down the danger of terrorism by saying "well you're much more likely to die in a car accident". That is NOT reassuring.
Goldfish
QUOTE (Natanel @ Mar 5 2008, 03:13 PM) *
I always found it funny when by people try to play down the danger of terrorism by saying "well you're much more likely to die in a car accident". That is NOT reassuring.

Really? That's one of my favorite lines. But it's also why I avoid cars and taxis and prefer public buses.
Red Hare
not everyone is convincing by nature, no offense Goldfish.
krumlikeapretzel
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 5 2008, 02:14 PM) *
Really? That's one of my favorite lines. But it's also why I avoid cars and taxis and prefer public buses.
In Israel?

QUOTE (Red Hare @ Mar 5 2008, 02:24 PM) *
not everyone is convincing by nature, no offense Goldfish.
Indeed. No offense, Red Hare.
Goldfish
QUOTE (krumlikeapretzel @ Mar 5 2008, 04:53 PM) *
In Israel?

Yes. The drivers are maniacs and I fear for my life when I'm in a car. Not so on buses. Especially now. Bus bombings are totally passe.
krumlikeapretzel
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Feb 28 2008, 06:24 PM) *
What is she so afraid of?

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One eyed monsters said to roam the street of J'm. I wasn't mekabel the lashon hara, tho...

QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 5 2008, 03:57 PM) *
The drivers are maniacs and I fear for my life when I'm in a car.
You're definitely right. So maybe your co-worker is afraid of being in a car accident in Israel?
Goldfish
QUOTE (krumlikeapretzel @ Mar 5 2008, 04:58 PM) *
You're definitely right. So maybe your co-worker is afraid of being in a car accident in Israel?

No, it's terrorism.

People are disproportionately afraid of terrorism.
Pinchas
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 6 2008, 12:03 AM) *
No, it's terrorism.

People are disproportionately afraid of terrorism.


I used to point to that huge gaping hole in the ground downtown where the largest terrorist attack in history happened and point out that it happened in New York City and not Israel...
Kalashnikover_Rebbe
QUOTE (Pinchas @ Mar 6 2008, 11:58 AM) *
I used to point to that huge gaping hole in the ground downtown where the largest terrorist attack in history happened and point out that it happened in New York City and not Israel...

Or take a stroll through Times Square....
Margaux
Why would you need to convince her? If she doesn't want to go..it's her perogative.
Pinchas
QUOTE (Gretchen @ Mar 6 2008, 03:19 PM) *
Why would you need to convince her? If she doesn't want to go..it's her perogative.


Haven't you ever watched 24? Then the terrorists win!
Goldfish
QUOTE (Gretchen @ Mar 6 2008, 08:19 AM) *
Why would you need to convince her? If she doesn't want to go..it's her perogative.

I don't need to convince her, but the topic comes up every so often and I find it irritating when she makes comments like, "I don't know how you can go there," and "Don't your parents worry?" and "When my daughter went I was nervous the whole time she was away."
Very Lucky Guy
QUOTE (Pinchas @ Mar 6 2008, 04:58 AM) *
I used to point to that huge gaping hole in the ground downtown where the largest terrorist attack in history happened and point out that it happened in New York City and not Israel...

Unfortunately, it is more frequent in Israel though.
doodlehead
QUOTE (krumlikeapretzel @ Mar 5 2008, 05:58 PM) *
One eyed monsters said to roam the street of J'm. I wasn't mekabel the lashon hara, tho...

One eyed monsters are friendly...

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brianna
Well let's face it: You don't have wacko dark skinned guys blowing civilians up here in the US. What you need to do is convince her to go to Israel anyway.
doodlehead
QUOTE (brianna @ Mar 9 2008, 01:33 PM) *
Well let's face it: You don't have wacko dark skinned guys blowing civilians up here in the US. What you need to do is convince her to go to Israel anyway.

Except for a couple of thousand or so murdered on September 11.

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Tziona
I went on Birthright in January. My mom was hysterically crying, afraid for my life, the WORKS. I had the most amazing time in Israel and at first was being overly aware of my surroundings. By about halfway through I really forgot about threats and felt totally safe. I've been trying to encourage others to go on Birthright if they're eligible. For those that are apprehensive here is what I tell them:

1. Israel has never had a terrorist attack as severe as 9/11.
2. Terrorism is a threat in America as well.
3. A lot of the fear is created by the media. They never talk about the good and also focus on the violence in and around Gaza.
4. Visitors should stay away from Gaza and they'll be fine.
5. You are more likely to die or be injured in a car crash on your way to the airport (or anywhere) than from a suicide bomber while visiting Israel.
6. There is higher daily security in Israel than there is here in most places (like metal detectors to get into the mall).
7. Being afraid to visit Israel is like an Israeli being afraid to visit New York completely or the rest of America because of 9/11. Sure, we had that attack happened in one area, but if you're in Albany or Long Island, Queens, the Bronx and another attack happens in Manhattan, you're not in immediate danger. Just like if you were in Tel Aviv and there was a missile fired into Sderot. You're not in immediate danger. The risk of being near a suicide bomber is possible, but it shouldn't keep you from experiencing the land of milk and honey! It's possible in America too.

Although this is a little hard to say after what happened at the yeshiva in Jerusalem...just breaks my heart...but that was not targeted at tourists. Plus, we have school shootings here pretty regularly now. Except they usually result in more deaths.
brianna
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Mar 9 2008, 12:36 PM) *
Except for a couple of thousand or so murdered on September 11.

While horrible, that was a coordinated attack on a specific building. Israel is a war zone. Missiles are being fired, and suicide bombers are going around blowing themselves up every few weeks. The military runs around in uniform with tanks. There's no comparison.
artscroll
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Feb 28 2008, 04:23 PM) *
There's a woman at my work who shudders at the thought of visiting Israel. She's a somewhat knowledgeable Conservative middle-aged woman. Her daughter went on Birthright last year and it absolutely terrified her to let her go.

Is there anything I can say to this woman to convince her that Israel is safe? Apparently my having visited seven times and gone to school there for a year wasn't proof enough.

Assuming the premise to be true - I doubt you could convince anyone without encouraging them to go for themselves (despite the fear), see for themselves and make up their own mind. In my experience bullets and bombs aren't usually wizzing over people's heads in everyday life in EY, but how could anyone be convinced of it unless they experience it?
doodlehead
QUOTE (brianna @ Mar 10 2008, 04:27 PM) *
While horrible, that was a coordinated attack on a specific building. Israel is a war zone. Missiles are being fired, and suicide bombers are going around blowing themselves up every few weeks. The military runs around in uniform with tanks. There's no comparison.

Have you ever visited?

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