Was just reading a listing of people's shidduch stats-- one thing that was mentioned was "No Medical Issues."

In this day and age, I doubt that people come from families with "No Medical Issues" (no wonder people are so apt to cover things up only to have it blow up in their face later).

There are families with no medical issues. Baruch Hashem, I was born into one of those familes (and had none myself). Thank G-d since that time*, my family has grown significantly and unfortunately, there are medical issues that have arisen.

It's definitely possible, although I don't think it should be a criteria for a SDJ.


*time of when I was in shidduchim.

What qualifies as a medical issue-- someone broken their leg in a skiing accident and now has a limp? Being on medicine for fungus-y toe nails? High cholesterol?

I've heard of a Scottish family that is not only immune from disease, but they also stop aging at a certain point. Members can only die by being beheaded. But I didn't know there was a Jewish branch of the family.

does such a thing even exist?
even if they only mean in the immediate family, everyone has issues. everyone.

if you wear glasses and have a cavity, you already have medical issues.

I would assume it meant mental health issues, not any medical issue.

I would think it would mean any medical issues. I also think it is an unacceptable elevation of the shidduch mania...

what other shidduch stats are there? does your shadchan send you a spreadsheet?

Hmm. This is new for me then. I had only heard of people being concerned with mental health issues before. Now people are also checked out for physical health?! Yikes! How will anyone ever get married?

B"H, I don't have a shadchan (I wonder if it would be all that helpful, anyway.)-- I was just reading (for fun) the Shadchan Magazine online.

Agreed, most especially since Jews, well in particular Ashkenazim, are more susceptible to certain diseases or conditions, including diabetes, gastro problems and others. In light of the fact that people are living longer, your bound to get something.


Good question.

In light of all of this- Dor Yesharim is very interesting, because you never know what's actually in your genetic package.

In the absence of emotional attachment/falling in love etc, finding a spouse is just a matter of finding the person with the highest ratio of the characteristics you want who will be willing to marry you. In the shidduch system, things must look good On Paper™ before the couple can even meet. This cuts down instances where people inexplicably "click" even when objectively speaking it seems like one side can Do Better™.

Well Said™

Any health problem is a problem in shiduchim. If you have diabetes I wish you lots of luck. Worse of course is if you had cancer. The worse thing too have is mental illness. That is why a girl who had cancer in remission agonised a long time about whether or not to date me since I take medication for depression. In the end she said no. Who dated her I have no idea.
If you have a clean bill of health the next step is what the story is with relatives. A sibbling or parent with diabetes or cancer or mental illness is also a problem.
There is an orginisation that makes singles shabatons. They have too many girls but often not enough guys. They are supposed to be an orginisation dedicated to helping singles get married so silly me I went to them once and told them about myself as I trully was then. I said I was bipolar (which has since become doubtful-at most I'm whats called soft bipolar, a really minor form where the mania is non existant) and how I sometimes got down, had trouble getting up etc. They decided no one would date me so they lied and told me they had no slots when they really had. I said "your just saying that" and they admited it. They said only a girl on meds will marry me and they don't have any such girls. I said how about a girl with diabetes and they said "our girls with diabetes won't take depression." I told them how gedolay yisroel have told me to just go out and disclose my depression on the 3rd date but they said, "We red the shiduchim so we know better than the gedolay yisroel. If they red shiduchim they would see we are right."
I could write more about this but I've already writen enough to throw up.

People who think that "normal" people don't take medication for mental illness are stupid. And people who don't take medication for mental illness are probably crazy (in my opinion) because how a person can survive in this world without some form of depression or insanity is beyond me.

Not that I'm shocked that people are idiots, but mostly because, IIRC from another time you posted the story, this is an organization which constantly screams about how rabbinically approved they are.

I mamash don't want to write the following story because I believe in daas Torah but I had a bad experience. I called a member of their rabbinival board and asked him what the Torah says about not dating people on meds. He said the Torah doesn't its right or wrong. Its personal preference. So I said "its ok when they told me I can't go to the shabbaton because I'm on meds." He got upset and said "Who said that ?!" I said I'm not going to give names. He said I really had caught him with his coat on and he was heading out the door but he would look into it. I was disapointed.
He's not my gadol. My gadol is Reb Matisyahu Solomon. He sat with me for 40 minutes recently and said I'm definitely rauy to get married. He's a really tzadik. He's smart. He knows how many thousand people take medicine. Because everyone pours their heart out to him. They don't fake it.(Thats not a quote though.)
After I get married I'm gona bli neder fight to mental health less stigmatised.



WEll I don't go that far. Most people don't have a psychological disorder. They don't need meds.

Let one of them have a kid on meds and we'd see how things change. I know a rov whose son had infertility. All of a sudden this rov got involved in the inyan.
Menchen lack midos. Untill it hits home in the aiginer shtub they fashtey nisht.

Yeah, I exaggerated a bit. But I wholeheartedly support the destigmatization of mental illness.

Thank you.

Is this listing of shidduch stats, including medical information public?

Is it written down on some sort of list?

Thanks.

Off topic a little bit, but last week's Mishpacha magazine [not this past Friday, the week before] had what I thought was a terribly disturbing article called something like Secrets, all about the horrible practice among the [certain demographic] of keeping medical issues a secret as a matter of religious imperative. It even described one man who was in therapy because of having to live with his terrible secret and having had to obscure from his yeshivah that he had dietary restrictions.

As for announcing that one doesn't have medical issues, I'm not entirely sure what that means or how one can declare that with confidence, but I find that disturbing for a variety of reasons including that now the implication is going to be for others who don't make that public declaration that there are indeed medical issues for those and not making the declaration is going to be a red flag. The magazine allowing that sort of declaration to be made is just raising the bar even higher and entrenching more stupidity. I think next they should have a check box for "No geirim in my family to four degrees of separation".

On one hand I liked the article because it raised the question of secrets. Implied in the article was are we too secretive. But the article didn't have the guts to say yes. The amount of secrecy we have was evident how crazy it is from the article. Its real imaturity.

It's a lot of things, but it's not immature. From a certain perspective, it's perfectly logical. Please see my original post on this topic.

Think of it like this: most families have some medical issue of another, so in the unlikely event that they really aren't sweeping anything under their rug, they will be more susetable than others of developing something. Kinda like not getting hit by lightning twice, right?

Ugh I hated that article. Why can't people just get over themselves and stop trying to look perfect already?? Why don't people learn that trying to hide a problem is going to make it so much worse..?
The one person interviewed in the article who was pro being open, had less than positive things to say about it. It was so pointless.

I was reading through the shadchan magazine and noting things- including a profile requesting a spouse/potential with no family history of medical problems, asking 55 year old what summer camp they attended, etc. I just happen to think this is all 'off the wall'

Inasmuch as one should be attempting to maintain their own health and a healthy lifestyle, whether or not there is a family history of medical concerns (of any sort), seems to be ignored.

Since I don't read Mishpacha Magazine, melech and crew, does the magazine say anything about trying to maintain a healthful lifestyle through diet, exercise, etc.? Do the recipes (if there are any) reflect this?

eta: did anyone ever see the movie Uncle Chaim?

Nope

This seems to be part of a grand scheme of "perfection."
Perfect health, perfect yechus, perfect finances (for kollel), perfect size, perfect concerts (or else ban them), perfect thoughts (women keep out of sight), perfect dress (borsalino), perfect bus rides. Anything else?
Chas v'shalem something comes up out of the ordinary (a crowded bagel store) and all our willpower goes out the window.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/Genera...).html#comments

Okay. I assumed that it meant any longlasting mental (depression) or physical health issues (diabetes) that can seriously impact the way the family is run. I do wear glasses and have more than one cavity.


Some medical issues can make a big difference in a person's life (i.e. asthma, diabetes, cancer, etc.)


I think that's what we (as a society) are trying to figure out.


Yup!!! I think this is an excellent point.

Yup. I'm an active, outdoorsy person and I don't want someone who isn't going to be able to share that with me. When my husband was ill I was happy to put my interests on hold and take care of him. But I won't go into a relationship knowing the person won't be able to go mountain climbing with me. BTW, asthma does not preclude being active and outdoorsy - it depends on the severity and how well it's controlled. I have asthma and yesterday I ran 5 miles in under an hour.

Neither does diabetes, if it's under control with diet, exercise and medication- same with other maladies.

True, but it depends on the malady and the individual. I know a guy who only has one lung and runs marathons. But recently I got set up with a guy who has arthritis and could barely walk. He was a nice guy, but not compatible with my lifestyle. I don't know what my friend who set us up was thinking.

Understood.

[pre-marital health conditions should be looked at in context of the individuals' lifestyle, control, etc. and other person's ability to potentially 'deal' with the situation. Additionally, sometimes people seem to forget that conditions sometimes appear later in life-- yes, some people run for the door at that point]

I don't understand why diabetes would be stigmatizing. I understand why it would interfere with a person's diet, but not why a person would be "bad" because of it. Would someone think "that person has diabetes so I won't date her because we can't go out for pizza all the time?"

This thread is alternately upsetting/sad and amusing.

Diabetes can be genetic and is a serious health condition. People can and do die from it. However it is certainly controllable.

I would say it's "sickening", but I'm afraid of hurting my children's shidduch prospects.

Controlled diabetes is controllable. Uncontrolled diabetes is not necessarily controllable.

Some people are idiots.
If people would even just read your posts on h.com, they would get the sense that you deserve someone incredibly special and at the very least, who can walk. My experience is that people who would train for a marathon [and who think 7 lbs will make the difference] generally find people who can walk to be more compatible with their lifestyles.

True. It depends on whether or not it has ravaged the body or not.

I think every person with any condition should only marry a person with the same condition. Cp to CP, SB to SB, colon cancer to colon cancer, etc. They don't even need to date, A shadchan should just match them up and then everyone can be done with it!

Sure. I am aware of the issues at hand. However, in the vast majority of cases it is controllable and I don't understand why it would be stigmatizing.

(Besides, Carla loves Turk anyway despite his diabetes.)


I feel bad for the people who don't believe in this, but feel they have to go along in order to get along. I just find some of it amusing, like the summer camp information and the gall of those who would put this stuff in a magazine.

"deserve someone who can walk", and you wonder where stigmas come from?

In theory there is the fear that the person will die young beause of it. Noone wants to see their child a widow/ widower. Also, it is genetic. Noone wants to "design" sick grandchildren. In reality people believe they deserve better than a spouse with an illness or condition.

VLG, when you were dating did date people with diseases or disabilities? If you didn't, or even if you hesitated that might help you understand people for whom diabetes or other conditions have a stigma.

My honest opinion is if for someone these issues are so make it or break it they probably shouldn't be marrying somone with any kind of illness or condition. Often, they probably shouldn't even be speaking to them.

That's not what I said, although admittedly I could have phrased it better. I said [or at least meant] she deserves someone incredibly special and I also think that someone who can walk would probably be more compatible with her lifestyle.


Mind you, she could always drive him around in her dream Hummer.

And imagine if she was lactose intolerant and celiac (just adding a bit of fuel to the fire)...people with these situation can alter their diet to enable them to live well and healthfully.

I can say that people have lost site of the big picture.

I wonder if Sarah Imanu had listed her serious medical condition on the shidduch profile the shadchan redt to Avraham Avinu?

It seems though that your falling for a double standard. Who says the guy with severe arthritis and trouble walking isn't someone incredibly special? You're writing him off as defective because of his condition. I'm not saying he's necessarily the match for chaimsmom if they didn't click, but the idea that she "deserves" someone who can walk at the very least, and by marrying someone with severe arthritis she's settling for less, is only perpetuating the problem. Maybe I deserve someone without diabetes or without cancer or mental health issues or MS in the family for the past 5 generations.

*ETA: Bird said it first.

OK. Point taken. Thank you.