From the Jewish Star newspaper which covers the South Shore of Long Island and Southeast Queens

A lecture recently delivered gives no suggestion as to how to end the 'shidduch crisis'-- but notes that mixed seating at weddings might do something.

[i hear an op-ed is in the works (not written by me!) by a non-married person who hopes that rabbis will sanction methods beyond the shidduch model- i'll post it next week if it makes the papers]

I've been saying this for how long?

What is this community like?

The lecture was held at Young Israel of Woodmere. The community is 'mixed'.

What was interesting were several things:

1. some parents were blaming the year in Israel for their children's extreme frumkeit when they return. As a result, some parents after the lecture said they'd try to bar their kids from going (a whole other issue all together)

2. making more events and co-ed shabbos meals with families in the area with shuls participation was floating around. Not every rav will agree to this and a college grad who lives in WH stated that as much as the people wanted to do something and be proactive the singles are not living in the suburbs-- the potential target audience is in WH or UWS, etc.

3. A singles event was held locally and was open to Orthodox singles- 3 ladies arrived wearing pants was were summarily asked to leave.

4. the psychologist (who was selling his book at the event) noted that after the year in Israel- the guys tend to normalize after a while, while the girls tend to stick to their (perceived) increased frumkeit. In turn, the guys realize that the frum girls ask too much of them and it's easier to meet a less demanding girl at bar, party, etc.

That is completely true.

1. i don't see how it will solve anything.

2. i doubt it'll happen.

The psychologist also advocated dating multiple people simultaneously- as, in his opinion, how else can one make a clear decision and compare different qualities, etc.

It seems like enough of the population is having enough difficulty getting one date lined up (after all the pre-checking cr@p), he's advocating more than one person at time.

It would have been the death of me if I had dated more than one person at a time. It was hard enough having every past acquaintance and date pop into my head and confuse me, let alone dating them at the same time.

I don't know. While it may sound like a good idea in theory, I think it adds far too much pressure. I would just not go to the few weddings I would otherwise consider. I don't need the pressure.

That's the thing, when it's normative practice to "mingle" it's not a pressure, it becomes natural.

Also I've BEEN to more than a few mixed seat weddings, and I've noticed that most people do NOT "mingle" unless they already know each other....
And the "frummer" the people, the less likely it is.....

So it is a catch-22 people who will have mixed weddings are likely to mingle anyway, and people who don't aren't. So simply "taking down the mechitzah" is not likely to have any major effect.....

thats been my experience too, besides theres so many variables, and outside "the wedding crashers" im not sure how many matches are made at mixed, secular and goyishe weddings. Most people regardless of frumness dont exactly feel comfortable using every social oppurtunity to "go fishing"

Although i will admit i despise seperate seating,

Taking down the mechtizah must be done in conjunction with changes in attitude and socialization. Obviously simply seating singles together at weddings is not the singular solution when, for instance, the BY Babes are socialized to give the BY Death Stare to anyone who says hello; it's an arrow in the quiver.

And yes, I know people who have met at social functions and whose relationship progressed at social functions normally gender segregated among the [certain demographic].

I've noticed the same thing at school Shabbatot; however people invariably end up talking or sitting at the wrong table because they can't find another place or being introduced.

And as Melech said, it must be done in conjunction to attitude changes, but it can bring to attitude changes, too. After a while.

Which is ironic, because the ENTIRE point is to encourage "mingling"...

And it DOES work, to an extent. If someone absolutely doesn't want to mingle, they won't force.

Yeah, but this is YU we're talking about where in general there is no strict separation of the sexes. If the efforts THERE are only met with limited success, how effective would they be in more right wing circles???

You'd be surprised, but there's a nice spectrum in YU / Stern, too. Most people DO mingle, some don't.
And it might take a while in RW circles, but at least SOMETHING would happen. At the very least people of opposite genders wouldn't be people of completely opposite species (even if they are).

But that would require completely revolutionizing frum society which the OPS does NOT want to do.
That is precisely the problem I am trying to point out. There is NO WAY the OPS would EVER go for a fully integrated society, no matter HOW bad the "shiduch crisis" gets. So their only option is to offer LIMITED contact between the sexes, which wouldn't really do any good because they are still socializing the masses to stay away from each other. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It is impossible to maintain a policy of segregation and then expect people to flip a switch and suddenly "mingle" when the wall is taken down, and the OPS has NO intention of revising its GENERAL policy, even if they are willing to make some small compromises here and there.....

But in any event it's not so simple because even if 2 dossim meet at a mixed wedding and hit it off, they can't just go out and get married. That would be a travesty for the rest of the family and send shockwaves throughout the community. They would have to have official shadchanim at the wedding, to whom the couples express interest in each other, then have the parents do extensive research and then if all is well they can finally go out.....

Dunno about that. DIY shidduchim without a shadchan happen among the frum community here in London and even though Daddy might want to get the shotgun out when he finds out his darling daughter has been secretly meeting a boy on the street corner, once the star crossed young couple profess their love for each other and their wish to get married, usually Daddy relents and everyone who was a little shocked thinks "awww how sweet."

Yeah a bunch of years ago my parents lived next to this really frum family with a wild teenage daughter. She had a boyfriend she saw for over a year and they got engaged. It was a bit of a scandel because they went to florida together and whatnot and for some reason people knew about that. Once they got married though it was all okay.

I don't know. One would be up against a lot. I would think the average to not so great looking would feel stupid while all the hotties would revel in the extra attention. The hotties are getting dates anyway...

Not necessarily. I know this one gorgeous girl who didn't get married until she was 26 because her father died when she was young. I kid you not.

Not true. Especially in a system in which shadchanim aren't acting as gate keepers and where the singles are empowered to not only meet independently, but interact in social settings that are not glorified interviews. When one does that, and one has the opportunities to be "friends" or to otherwise get to know someone in a variety of natural venues and settings, one sees the whole person as a person rather than as a sum of Shidduch Profile Index scores. In simple terms, one gets to know the "average to not so great looking" and appreciate her qualities. Such a system actually skews the success away from the "hotties" who have a natural leg up [so to speak] in the shidduch system with the shadchan gate keepers and the interview-like shidduch system where one is compelled to make relatively quick decisions about whether there is potential or not.

Yechi haMelech...

As an aside, I heard something interesting on Shabbos. My shul started implementing a mechitza at shul kiddushin after years of there being no mechitza because of an incident one shabbos in which a woman was sitting on her husband's lap. Putting aside the fact that some people might disagree with that decision, I found it interesting that the reason for the mechitza was not because of unmarried people possibly mingling but because of a married couple with boundary issues.

I don't know that you are right. Say the kallah has 20 friends at the wedding. Lets say 3 are super hott, 12 pull themselves together and look quite pretty and there are 5 average to less than average girls. Which guy in his right mind would look at the last five?

Some people are interested in things other than "eye candy"...
And as was already said, this is a SOCIAL setting, not picking up a random chick at a bar or a "singles event". So presumably there will be mixed groups of various "h0tness" and people will get to know each other a little bit and THEN after the dust settles a spark might be kindled...

Not to mention the obvious fact that people have different opinions about who and what is h0tt. One guy might think a chick is gorgeous and the next guy "meh"...

I don't know. I always kind of feel bad for my friends when they are with me and a hott guy passes Either way, guys may be looking for more than eye candy, but when they are set in a social setting with attractive and less than attractive girls and have the opportunity to get to know any of them on a deeper level they'd normally go to the ones that are also eye candy (which is why all the guys are running after me).