Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Semantics and Usage- the word Yiddishkeit
Hashkafah.com > Living Jewish > Society & Culture
Tova
I recently saw the following:

"X and Y will be speaking about their incredible journey to Yiddishkeit"

Both X and Y were born Jewish. Both X and Y knew they were Jewish, but were not educated (in any sort of way) until later in life.

Is Yiddishkeit supposed to mean Judaism or frumkeit?
Xi
Frumkeit. 99% of the time, at least.
doodlehead
QUOTE (Xi @ Mar 3 2008, 12:16 PM) *
Frumkeit. 99% of the time, at least.

Whens the 1%?

9
Xi
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Mar 3 2008, 12:56 PM) *
Whens the 1%?

9

Maybe when it's in relation to other religions.

Thank you for finally posting the answer to your Gemora riddle.
Kalashnikover_Rebbe
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Mar 3 2008, 07:56 PM) *
Whens the 1%?

9

I just realized, you two would be perfect for each other......
You could deluge each other with questions until you collapse from exhaustion......
doodlehead
QUOTE (Xi @ Mar 3 2008, 01:00 PM) *
Thank you for finally posting the answer to your Gemora riddle.

smile.gif You are welcome.

9

QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 3 2008, 01:03 PM) *
I just realized, you two would be perfect for each other......
You could deluge each other with questions until you collapse from exhaustion......

You think I ask a lot of questions?

9
Xi
QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 3 2008, 01:03 PM) *
I just realized, you two would be perfect for each other......
You could deluge each other with questions until you collapse from exhaustion......

rofl.gif

QUOTE (doodle)
You think I ask a lot of questions?

rofl.gif
doodlehead
QUOTE (Xi @ Mar 3 2008, 01:07 PM) *
rofl.gif


You think so too?

9
krumlikeapretzel
QUOTE (Tova @ Mar 3 2008, 10:25 AM) *
Is Yiddishkeit supposed to mean Judaism or frumkeit?
It certainly doesn't mean "Judaism".
Years ago, the word "Yiddishkeit" was often used to mean the Yiddish language and Ashkenazi culture and idiosyncracies.
Most people outside Yiddishist circles use the word today as a rough equivalent of "frumkeit". (although "frumkeit" can sometimes have more of a "machmir" connotation than "yiddishkeit")
I don't know what the initial meaning of the term was, and who hijacked whose word.
My gut feeling is that the word was coined up by Yiddishists to distinguish Jewish quasi-religious and non-religious culture from Judaism ("Yiddentum") and the term was later hijacked by Haredim to mean the opposite of its original meaning, the same way zionists hijacked the term "self-hating Jew" which originally was a word used by Reform people to describe observant Jews as self-flagellating, and reversed it to mean "Jewish anti-semite".
Xi
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Mar 3 2008, 01:13 PM) *
You think so too?

Did you interpret that to mean that I do?
Shemmy
Whenever I hear "Yiddishkeit," I think of the religious, Ashkenazi experience. No different from associating "Judaismo" or "Judzemo" with the religious, Sephardic (S&P/Balkan) experience.
doodlehead
QUOTE (Xi @ Mar 3 2008, 01:43 PM) *
Did you interpret that to mean that I do?

I dont know, do you think you do?

9
Xi
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Mar 3 2008, 01:46 PM) *
I dont know, do you think you do?

9

Why do you think people think so much?
doodlehead
QUOTE (Xi @ Mar 3 2008, 01:49 PM) *
Why do you think people think so much?

Why would you think I do?

9
Xi
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Mar 3 2008, 01:51 PM) *
Why would you think I do?

9

Don't you realize that your response made it seem like you do?
doodlehead
QUOTE (Xi @ Mar 3 2008, 01:53 PM) *
Don't you realize that your response made it seem like you do?

I DONT think so. Now why do think I do?

9
Xi
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Mar 3 2008, 01:56 PM) *
I DONT think so. Now why do think I do?

9

OT -- Do you think Tova will like it that her thread became red because of an endless stream of questions unrelated to the OP?
doodlehead
QUOTE (Xi @ Mar 3 2008, 01:57 PM) *
OT -- Do you think Tova will like it that her thread became red because of an endless stream of questions unrelated to the OP?

No. Do you think it odd that I answered your questions but you didnt answer mine?

9
Kalashnikover_Rebbe
QUOTE (Xi @ Mar 3 2008, 08:57 PM) *
OT -- Do you think Tova will like it that her thread became red because of an endless stream of questions unrelated to the OP?

Just remember, full credit for this hijack goes to ME...
Xi
QUOTE (Shemmy @ Mar 3 2008, 01:45 PM) *
Whenever I hear "Yiddishkeit," I think of the religious, Ashkenazi experience. No different from associating "Judaismo" or "Judzemo" with the religious, Sephardic (S&P/Balkan) experience.

But of course in Yiddish it includes the non-Ashkenazi experience, too.
Shuli
QUOTE (Xi @ Mar 3 2008, 01:57 PM) *
OT -- Do you think Tova will like it that her thread became red because of an endless stream of questions unrelated to the OP?

Did you mean "read"?
doodlehead
QUOTE (Shuli @ Mar 3 2008, 02:25 PM) *
Did you mean "read"?

Like not blue.

9
Shuli
QUOTE (doodlehead @ Mar 3 2008, 02:27 PM) *
Like not blue.


Wasn't that supposed to be in the form of a question?
doodlehead
QUOTE (Shuli @ Mar 3 2008, 02:31 PM) *
Wasn't that supposed to be in the form of a question?

I dont speak only in questions. Kreb was the one who thought I ask lots of questions.

9
Shemmy
QUOTE (Xi @ Mar 3 2008, 01:59 PM) *
But of course in Yiddish it includes the non-Ashkenazi experience, too.


How so? Whenever I hear people speaking about Yiddishkeit, or yardsticks thereof, it's all completely foreign to Sephardismo.
krumlikeapretzel
QUOTE (Shemmy @ Mar 3 2008, 02:03 PM) *
How so? Whenever I hear people speaking about Yiddishkeit, or yardsticks thereof, it's all completely foreign to Sephardismo.

It's a אידיש vs. יִידיש issue, like I said before. יִידישקײַט has nothing to do with Sephardim, while אידישקײַט does...
Xi
QUOTE (Shemmy @ Mar 3 2008, 03:03 PM) *
How so? Whenever I hear people speaking about Yiddishkeit, or yardsticks thereof, it's all completely foreign to Sephardismo.

What krum said. Of course, people will talk about what's familiar to them, and thus Ashkenazi Jews will talk about Ashkenazi Judaism, but a, say, Sephardi Jew who returns to Judaism is also returning to Yiddishkeit. (Now if he returns to Lubavitch, that's an entirely different story. ph34r.gif)
Shemmy
And I'm saying that the entire corpus if Yiddishkeit, down to yeshiboth and pilpul is completely alien to Sephardismo.
Shuli
QUOTE (Shemmy @ Mar 3 2008, 06:12 PM) *
And I'm saying that the entire corpus if Yiddishkeit, down to yeshiboth and pilpul is completely alien to Sephardismo.


Obviously not, if you have "yeshiboth". Yeshivas are an ashkenazi institution.
krumlikeapretzel
QUOTE (Shemmy @ Mar 3 2008, 05:12 PM) *
And I'm saying that the entire corpus if Yiddishkeit, down to yeshiboth and pilpul is completely alien to Sephardismo.
Nah. Ever heard of Rabbi Yitzchak Campanton, known in his time as the "Gaon of Castilla" , author of Darkei Hatalmud and father of pilpul?
Shemmy
Rashi was a Spaniard also, but I'd place him outside the traditional Sephardic schools of the era.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.