I am not very familiar with this organization that I've recently came across. Their name is "Invei Ha'gafen" and apparently they are geared towards older orthodox twenty and thirty-somethings. They are having a singles weekend this coming weekend in upstate New York, however, unfortunately I am not a "model" candidate, and I was therefore wait-listed. What is frustrating for me is that my older female first cousin (27) was among one of the first ones invited. We both come from similar European backgrounds and our families attend the same shul. At first I did not care much when my cousin told me she was attending, but when a shadchan called me and informed me that I was wait-listed, and that chances "looked good" at getting in, I was totally turned off. Their selection criteria seems to be totally arbitrary, and I am rather offended that I only get an invitation now, when they are desperate to fill their final cancellation spots.

Am I being foolish? Should I just swallow my pride and attend anyway? I've heard from a friend who attended a previous event that most of the girls there are above 30 but are lying about their age just to get in (cut-off is 30). He also informed me that a number of the girls are on medication or have serious psychological issues (messy divorces etc.) but that they do not have to disclose this fact to the event organizers. (Apparently one of the Rabbis endorsing their events "Ok"-ed this). If this is true, then I am more upset for being selected last, and I don't see any reason why I should swallow my pride now and attend. I would hate to be matched up with someone I have feelings for, only to find out later they have 4 kids from 2 separate husbands! Can anyone confirm or contradict what I've heard? Has anyone had any previous experience with this organization?

What I've heard about Invei Hagefen is that Invei Hagen+Invei Hagefen=davar noeh umiskabeil.
Stop complaining about your shidduch du jour having 4 kids from 2 separate ex-husbands. Just be satisfied it's not 2 kids from 4 separate ex-husbands...
Anyway, here at hashkafah.com, shadchanim are public enemy #1.

btw, welcome to h.com, and...

nice screen name...

firstly, welcome to the site.

secondly, what do you mean by "not a model candidate"? do they have a model? who is it?

thirdly, sorry, i don't have experience with their weekend programs, but i did deal with their shadchan - she was a normal woman, trying to help.

how many serious feelings will you already develop after spending some time of one weekend with a person?
what these people are doing (lying about their age) is not nice, but are you always 100% sure that the girl's age you get from a shadchan/friend/third party is the correct one? my guess is when you go to a big event, there will be all different people there - with emotional baggage, without, on medication, off medication, etc. this is the chance you are taking, but this is also where YOUR role comes in. what guarantee is there that a girl introduced by a shadchan doesn't have some emotional baggage unknown to said shadchan?

and how do you know you were wait-listed because of your "un-model" status, and not because of, say, men to women ratio, or first come-first serve basis?

You're probably too young for their crowd, so why would you want to go?

I think you should go. I know the whole shidduch system scrapes away any sense of dignity, but push comes to shove, there might just be a guy there who you would never have otherwise met who may end up being your bashert. Also it's good to try new things, and I know a lot of great girls and guys that have gone to the shabbaton and enjoyed it. So try and swallow your pride and go in with an open mind and remember to ignore what the shidduch world may say about you and just show everyone the best Guhr Krum there is .

Best of luck.

Consider yourself lucky. I can think of no greater insult than being on the top of the list to be invited to a "singles weekend"...
If anything, this should reassure you that there is hope for you yet!!!

Well....some of you sound genuine in your advice but I also forgot to mention that there is a cost of upwards of $200 to attend the weekend. So its not just my pride that I'd be swallowing but also the hefty bill. I am also turned off by the whole exclusivity concept and their selection criteria. If they genuinely want to help, why not make it first come first serve?

If theyre worried about attracting the wrong crowds, then why not give interviews first? or applications? At least then they'd be justified in turning someone away!

That's tantamount to making it a #2 on the list of all time losers ...

Re: the cost

It doesn't sound outlandish. You're getting one night in a hotel, presumably. It includes meals and speakers etc. I'm sure someone's making money somewhere, but this is far from price gouging.

Re: Exclusivity

If people weren't checked out, orthodox people wouldn't go.

Good points on both.

Am I the only one who finds it offensive that this poster thinks that someone being "on medication" is a good reason to reject a shidduch?
Are you talking about all medications (not good "breeding material") or just psychiatric medications?
Even if you are talking about psychiatric medications, do you realize that many people take anti-depressants for example, that depression is very common, and that someone who suffered from a clinical depression can take medication and go into complete remission?
(this means that they will not have symptoms of the depression.) Some people with depression can go off anti-depressants after 6 months to a year, once the depression has lifted, others need to stay on the medication.
Regardless, depression is very treatable - one of the most treatable ailments (physical or emotional) that there is - anti-depressants are extremely effective.
Why discriminate against someone who has been responsible and takes medication to treat an ailment, and is treating it effectively.
Will the stigma against mental health issues ever end?

Invei Hagefen is a great and awful organization all at the same time.

Good: These women genuinely want to help older single girls settle down.
Conversely: Men are just the tool to that aim.

Good: They are willing to try new things like Shabbatons.
Conversely: There is still the snob factor regarding who gets to go. They are quite bigoted against older guys. They assume everyone over age x must see their in-house dating mentor if they want to have a chance of ever getting married, unless there is something visibly wrong with them.

Good: They interview every candidate.
Conversely: They crowd you out, about ten unsmiling women squeeze into a small cubicle and stare at you from every angle whilst firing questions at you. Just when the strain is beginning to show, one pulls out a camera, takes your picture and croons, 'what a swell picture of you, you look just so great on it'.

Good: They have a dating menor.
Conversely: His advice to single guys is that if you want to get married you have to concentrate only on what is important 'objectively'. Not things like personal preferences, i.e. looks, only then can he gurantee 'results'.

Good: They try and help older single girls.
Conversely: If a guy says that his age range is say, 25-28 he will only ever get suggested, girls of 28 yrs old, regardless of whethe there may be a 26 yr old particularly compatible with what he was describing he was looking for.

Hence, I believe in sitting in bars and chatting up girls. Works much better than any other system out there at present.

Really? How many people do you know that married the local bar fly?

For a one night stand, sure.

Please let us in on the secret as to which bars frum chicks tend to frequent.......

Define "frum."

Frum enough to potentially attend Invei Hagefen Shabbatonim......

Oh, so that rules out the chicks in crack square then I guess.

Any bar near a frum community that doesn't card.

Define "frum."

What does "card" mean in this context?

card = ask for ID

They were ruled out long before this thread.
Besides, I made the rounds in Crack Square back in its peak, now it is just pathetic.....



I DO like them young, but most chicks that aren't old enough to get into bars but hang out in them anyway aren't exactly looking to get married......

Well the relationships don't start off that way, I'll grant you that. But do you know how many couples I know who started off as just misfits having fun ended up all buckled down and married down the line? Many. And that doesn't count the ones who got married due to an unplanned pregnancy.

Well I guess in a pinch, knocking up a wayward sem girl could be an effective strategy.... But I'm not quite THAT desperate yet.....

So now that the Invey Shabaton has come and gone (without me and my anti depresants), any word on what it was like?

Well she could always just give birth and demand child support in which case you are both not screwed and poorer.

There were a number of terms being used loosely including 'bars' and 'chat-up'. Frum girls want to be chat-up in such a way that they can convince themselves that they are in fact only being 'helpful'. That way they can preserve their pride, get to know you and not have the pressure of having to act 'hot'.

It's complicated, but whatever.

Did you try swaggering over to the local BY during lunch time, rakishly tilting your borselino, going to a group of girls and asking "hey shatze, wanna go out for some herring and slimovitz?" That might work

Wow, you actually get it.

Chatting-up with feeling?