Two Rabbis, both here collecting. Both stayed with us at separate times but with no breathing space in between.

Houseguest # 1. Stayed with us from Friday to Monday afternoon. A complete mensch over Shabbos. Motzai Shabbos he started his collecting campaign. Only....he didn't have one. All he had was a list of names. He couldn't speak a word of English. He had no plan of action. He had no idea how to set up meetings. He just stood there like a lost sheep expecting MH to arrange all of this. MH is far too busy for that; all he (we)'d agreed to do is host the guy not nanny him. This lost sheep act lasted the entire time he was with us. Mh helped him a little, then we decided that the more we did the less he'd do for himself so we left him to it but he still tended to hang around MH looking forlorn.

Houseguest # 2. This guy is a regular, comes every year, although tbh it feels like a lot more often. Normally he comes for one Shabbos, leaves on Sunday night, and returns for the second Shabbos, staying somewhere else during the week. Only this year his mid week crash-pad didn't materialise so he's still with us, since last Thursday and no clear sign of him leaving till next week. This guy is very organised with his collecting; we don't have to do a thing to help him with it. But he commandeers the phone and my fridge. I never know what I have in the fridge, because what I assumed was in there, might not be, by meal times. He assumes this uber-heimish behaviour is what I prefer. No one can get through on the phone. He doesn't eat meals with us because he's too busy collecting, he just shows up any old time and raids the fridge; he knows how to work the microwave and where the milchig/fleishig dishes and dishwashers are so he makes himself meals. He has been spotted pouring milk from my fridge into a bottle to take out with him, and taking 2 litre bottles of diet coke out with him. In other words it's like having my teenage son back again, only without the advantages.

I asked MH to speak to him re raiding the fridge, so that he at least asks me before he takes things I had assumed would be there for our supper, but he wimped out, so I did it myself this morning, and he looked at me innocently and said he thought it would be less hassle for me if he just helped himself, but thanked me for telling him!

We have Guest type # 2 who surfaces every few weeks. I definitely prefer that over #1 because he is easier to please and easier to criticize (doesn't get insulted if we tell him something).

True. He has skin like a rhinoceros.

I would take #1 because it sounds like he is there for less time.

I cannot fathom having either of these people in my home ever. Lyric, you are clearly of saintly spirit.

I wish.

I agree. #2 sounds easier.

What my parents will often do is put stuff out (bagels, cc, pb, etc.) on table,often with baggies, cans of coke, etc. and let the people 'pack a lunch' for their way. This way the ingredients my mother thinks she has she does. (unless her kids come over and decide to help themselves )

Doesn't work with this guy. First morning I put out cereal, bowl, milk etc. He wanted my fresh veggies from the fridge, plus the 0% fat fromage frais I keep for my low fat eating, ..... he left the cereal and took what he wanted.

What's cc and pb?

cc= cream cheese
pb = peanut butter

Well if you know he likes the low fat and the fresh veggies, is it so hard to lay some out for him? How much extra does it cost for another yogurt and a few tomatoes?

Once I know, I make sure I am stocked. It's not that big a deal, you're right. But it's the leftovers you assume you have for supper when you are out all day, and you don't.

I once had guests come from Israel on a Thursday and I didn't really have food ready to give them. The thing is, they didn't confirm they were coming until like the night before. But I still felt very uncomfortable that they had just come in and were obviously hungry, and I didn't have food prepared for them.

Personally I'm happy when the guests raid the fridge because then I don't have to figure out what they'll like. My DH tends to go overboard and stocks the fridge with juice and spreads and cut vegetables and all sorts of yummies when we know we're having guests.

You've made me feel guilty and uncharitable, especially after I told our guest off this morning (even though he has real Israeli chutzpah and deserved it...) so I laid out his whole supper on the kitchen table tonight after returning from rehearsals; all ready for him to heat up in the microwave. I guess if I'm stuck with him for another week I might as well get as much schar from the mitzvah as possible.....

I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to.
I'm sure you're a much better hostess than I am.

But now youve made HER feel guilty for merely giving over her experiences. I think you should just tell your guest not to eat the lasagna if youre planning to have it for dinner. Surely he's not eating things you tell him davka not to.

Sorry Jeanette I didn't mean to make you feel guilty also. I'm probably not such a good hostess, and I don't have a hubby who goes shopping and fills my fridge. I think some men (mine included) would let the house run dry rather than shop for food. As to the lasagne (which I never eat), I often go out before our guest gets up and come back when it's too late to explain to him what he shouldn't have eaten. When I catch him (like today) I can explain but it doesn't always happen.

How long were your guests with you; the ones your hubby filled your fridge for? This guest will be with us for almost two weeks I think.

I always make sure the fridge is empty and I hide all food I don't want eaten when I am expecting guests....

My husband is an extremely generous fellow, sometimes overly so. I think he overdoes it and buys waaay too much. But over the years we've learned to compromise; I"m less exacting in how much I prepare to leave some extras for drop-in guests, and he has become a lot more budget conscious. I also think it's different when you're already preparing food for your family versus just you and your spouse. In my house I can't rely on a single leftover serving of anything to be my dinner; I always have a meal planned. I can imagine if I was coming home late and had only that serving in the fridge, I'd be annoyed that it was eaten.

It's been a while since we had sleep-in guests since our family has grown B"H and our apartment hasn't. The last I can remember was about 2-3 years ago. But we used to have guests for the whole month of Tishrei, or the whole Pesach, that kind of thing. They generally didn't eat all their meals with us though.

When we had all our kids at home I used to cook for an army and it took me a LONG time to unlearn that, and just cook for MH and me. So now if I don't want too many leftovers thrown away, I tend to know how many pieces of chicken are left from Shabbos and how long they will last (till Monday). So as I was out all day Monday at this meeting in town, and following that scary heart ECG thingey on my return, it was an annoying surprise to find I didn't have the chicken I thought I had in the fridge. Especially as I had to rush out to rehearsals at 8 pm. That was all I meant and which prompted me to speak to the guest on Tuesday morning.

When the kids come home like for Pesach I am back to cooking for an army again and a piece of chicken more or less wouldn't be noticed.

Leave a note; if you established boundaries, you'd be more comfortable and avoid a few confrontations.



Boy, does that remind me of someone...

Right now, I'd honestly prefer any guest at all.

I have no preference between those 2 though. They're just 2 different experiences. I generally let guests know by announcment or note not to eat X its for dinner, for a recipe, etc. Or leave money and a note "if you finish the milk and happen to go out please pick up another bag." or the like (the store is 1/2 a block away).

Otherwise they raid me like a swarm of locusts
And I have told my roommate numerous times not to offer them food, because like cats they will be back every day, but he hasn't caught on yet.....

True. Have to make sure my Hebrew is up to all the nuances...should be.

Yea I was surprised that he saw there was only a little milk left and he chose to pour it onto a bottle for himself to take out. When people use our J'lem house I tell them that whatever they finish (washing powder, TP etc) to please replace so when we come there are no unpleasant surprises.

Since Rabbi #2 looks like staying here for another week I decided to come to a modus vivendi that would work. As he eats supper at about 11pm, when I come back from rehearsals I prepare his supper and leave it on the table. That way he doesn't take things I don't want him to take. He told me yesterday that he does the same thing at home; his wife only makes meals for him on Shabbos; during the week he is expected to raid the fridge. (!!) I can just see MH putting up with THAT!

Lyric, I realize it's an imaginary situation, but would you prefer
1. that the rabbinic house guests NOT stumble across this thread because if would be embarrassing were they to know how you are broadcasting their behavior or
2. that the rabbinic house guests INDEED stumble across this thread since it would be a convenient way of them finding out your feelings without having to actually confront and tell them in a passive aggressive sort of way?

Um... well obviously I would prefer if he didn't but then again he has thick skin and he would probably take it the way he took it when I did confront him. Point taken however ... I'll shaddap.

Wow you guys are amazing. I wish I'd be able to tolerate people coming in to my house as they please and helping themselves to food. It would make me so nervous...

(That wasn't my point. I do the same thing all the time on h.com, although I struggle with the boundaries).

Yea but you're right, and if I hadn't spoken to him face to face it would have been cowardly of me to offload on here. But I did face him and we did have The Chat[tm] so I reckon I'm allowed a little boundary pushing.

Not really amazing...I hadn't expected at all that he'd be here so long. He normally comes for two Shabbosos and goes elsewhere during the week so I don't have all this to deal with but this year as I said, his mid week accommodation fell through and he has nowhere else to go so I have him for two weeks and a quarter altogether.

I think it's okay to vent about a houseguest since the chances of being identified through the post are slim. I know some people know lyric's real name since she posted it here, and used to have her picture on the avatar, but you'd still need to know her pretty well and be around London to recognize the houseguest from her description. Writing things about your family members is a different story and it's something that I try to avoid doing as much as possible.

I think it's different when one is newly married and not used to it, as opposed to after having a household of children. When I was newly married I couldn't imagine it either. However, now that my house is a little more hussle and bustel I can imagine it more (and it has happened).


BACK TO THE OP: I thought about this and realized it could be that he has been in your home during the week at a point in your life when you had the kids home and never knew who took what so he did the same, but didn't realize that at this stage of your life, it does make a difference?

I doubt anyone would identify him as he is Israeli and only here for a short time every year. There are so many like him, how could anyone guess?

Important caveat: I do the same thing, so I'm not trying to be critical, but rather to explore the issues so I can work on my own policies. That said...

Don't your kids live next door to your or something? Wouldn't posting on h.com, which they can easily access [in theory, if not in practice], be equivalent to telling them lashon hara directly about your rabbinic house guest?

It's like that very, very unfortunate thread about the bat mitzvah program - we and the subjects of our posts are not always as anonymous to everyone as we imagine.

One absolutely loathes people who offer to help when they don't really want to.

True, yet when the host, or hostess gives themselves away by baring seemingly too many personal details, then anonymity is pretty much out the window.

I'm not sure what this means. Does hosting a guest for a week imply that you are going to take care of any and all of their needs for the duration of their stay? Did she offer or was she asked to host this guest? The original plan was that he'd only stay for Shabbos and it extended for two weeks. If you are able to offer a bed but not meals, or meals but not a bed, or meals and bed but not secretarial services, I don't see what's "loathsome" about that.

It means that whatever you dislike should be adressedto the person who is doing it. The fact that you whine about it behind his/her back, leads on to believe that you're not too keen on them in the first place.

Firstly I did not offer to have him. He invited himself to us. He has been coming to us yearly for over 20 yrs on only a two-Shabbos-no-weekday basis. I did speak to him about his fridge raiding and we are working out the best way to carry on so that it suits us both. And yes I'd prefer not to host anyone who is not family for over two weeks but I don't have a choice. My husband has asked him a few times to find somewhere else but he hasn't found anywhere. He is perfectly aware he has overstayed his welcome but he's Israeli and thick skinned so it doesn't seem to trouble him. So we've all decided to make the best of it. If that makes me loathsome I'm sorry.

Yeah, let's condemn the people who go out of their way to welcome guests even when it's difficult and validate the ones who refuse to be bothered to begin with.

Well, to be honest, as someone who has been living in someone else's house now for 7 months even though I think they are amazing tzaddikim and am totally indebted to them I would still be very, very hurt if I heard that they were venting about me in public.
I don't think anyone can ever be too careful not to vent to "loudly" in a situation like this.
Sorry, Lyric, I just see the other side too well. It is hard being dependant on others and you are not always sure what to do.

I hear what you are saying Bird and you are right..I should keep quiet. The original post was, I think, a way of making us think what kind of house guests we are in other people's homes. It has morphed into a bit of a whinge I agree, as I am a bit fedup with the way he has taken over my house. Probably something I should work on in myself. I'm sure you are wonderful house guests and do your best to help out. If it is a question of health issues; my sister in law in the US used to live in Boston and people were always coming to stay with her for medical treatment in the nearby hospitals.

Yesterday in shul a friend of mine told me about a lady who comes collecting for her shemiras halashon tapes for children every year. She stays in my area, but moves from host to host every few days even within the same area, so she can walk around the new few blocks, and doesn't feel she has outstayed her welcome at any one place.

Our house guest has left. Tonight.

Good. So now you have room for me. Please re-stock the fridge.