Can we get a discussion about environmentalism going? God forbid you Jews should talk about something relevant to the world at large! jk...dialogue through shock tactics.
At what point in resource-use will stewardship be worked into halacha? Should be soon, no kidding! The 'Jewish World' isn't the 'Jewish World' anymore. You yids wanted to be equal citizens, well you got what you wanted. It's your world now.

Um yeah, great way to start off on the right foot.

I believe that Hashem's initial charge to Adam includes being a good steward of the environment. I believe in conserving resources, recycling, limiting pollution, clean energy, sustainable agriculture... anything else?

I'm sure the prohibition on animal cruelty could find novel application.

I suggest that *before* you come here with so many preconceptions and venom you get acquainted with people here. That kind of "attitude" coming from a n00b is not going to get you very far here... that's for sure.

Not all Jews are ignoramuses or global warming-deniers... not by a long shot...

Things don't have to be "worked into halacha" to be incorporated into our lives, as long as it doesn't contradict pre-existing halacha, and environmentalism certainly doesn't contradict any pre-existing halacha.

Global warming doesn't exist, since some parts of the world are actually getting colder. Hightened global climate change, OTOH, is an issue, if you consider that we may usher in the next ice age a little bit early.

Is this the new troll or the same one ?

I think you are actually right, here. Some of these "halacha seforim" on meta-issues are pretty terrible.

There is a lot of talk but very little do in practical energy innovation. That's because there is zero real interest in the investment community to anything other then what the estabish behemoths have to offer, and it is a vicious cycle of capital that can only be broken by external revolutionary means, as KMFE, VIL and LDT have firmly taught us.

Environmentalists are Ghey....
End of discussion.....

People who care more about saving whales and fungus than other people disgust me......

Environmentalists are not all "save the whales and screw the humans" types. Now, the sub-human retards who were pelting the Yushin Maru with chemicals the other day are not 
environmentalists. They might not eat whales, but should respect others who do. 
Or else 
they should attack slaughterhouses that kill cows and chickens in their home 
countries first. The double standard is just ethnocentrism and idiocy. 

There is just one troll with many faces  screen names.

Not to mention that the industrialists don't care that much for people either. In fact my environmentalism (to whatever extent I'm concerned for the environment) has to do with its impact on human life and human health. Don't tell me that the mass produced garbage that the masses eat is worth the cost in environmental damage to the planet because it's ending world hunger.

QFT  very well said.

Halacha is the way you make people do something they don't want to do even though its good for them.
If people don't have an abstract value for 'life' let's say, then you've got to appeal to their sense of good jewish pride or their sense of dumb jewish pride. Anything so they stop acting like a fool.

Problem number one is overpopulation by underachieving ethnoe.

that's how things work. no surprise. there's less humans than roaches. they seem to do ok.

define ok. if east asia and africa get their forks, everyone will have to live like roaches ...

underacheiving at what? making money?

advancing humanity

by how? building luxury hotels?

huh? East Asia is underachieving? at making money? Please tell me you're trying to be sarcastic.

Raw birth rates per year

Japan 8 per 1000
Germany 8 per 1000
South Korea 10 per 1000
USA 13 per 1000
France 13 per 1000
Thailand 13 per 1000
China 14 per 1000
Brazil 16 per 1000
Israel average 21 per 1000
India 23 per 1000
Palestinians 37 per 1000
Kenya 39 per 1000
Angola 45 per 1000
Somalia 46 per 1000
Israeli Modern Orthodox 52 per 1000
Israeli Charedim 77 per 1000

Israel GDP per capita $17,200
South Korea GDP per capita $17,700
Japan GDP per capita $27,000
Canada GDP per capita $29,000
USA GDP per capita $44,000

what's raw birth rate? before infant mortality is counted?

What does the birth rate have to do with it ? Count how many people there are, how many calories they produce and consume and how many mathematicians, physicists, engineers and coders they produce.

Do not conflate East Asia with Africa - they are very far from each other, and different, too. And don't count Japan and South Korea as East Asia, nor North Korea either. Let's limit it to India, Pakistan and maybe whatchamacallit - Indonesia . They all eat too many wrong things, and they are liable to eat my stuff and maybe even myself too. Africans would eat it too, but they don't have forks or planes, nor do they tend to live long enough to just walk over and consume our lunch.

what's raw birth rate? before infant mortality is counted?

what's raw birth rate? before infant mortality is counted?

how about not conflating east asia and south asia?

Fine, call it south. What's Yemen then ? And what's wrong with Indonesia being way more East then all the others ?

A large percentage of people in India are vegetarian, and besides the spices, their diet is pretty conventional even for those who do eat meat. When you talk about eating many "wrong" things I'd think you're thinking about China, especially Guangdong. Actually the Cantonese say 
they eat "everything with four legs, except for desks."
And, actually, India and Pakistan are known for producing a lot of engineers and computer programmers, as well as physicians.

OK.
Regions of Asia 101:

Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Israel, etc.= Southwest Asia aka the Middle East.
Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan,=Northeast Asia aka the Far East.
Pakistan, India, Bangladesh=South Asia aka the Indian Subcontinent.
Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, etc.=Central Asia
Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, etc.=Southeast Asia aka Indochina
Indonesia , Malaysia, etc. may be included in Southeast Asia or called "Australasia", but more commonly only refered to as "Indonesia" or "Malaysia"

By "eating wrong things" I don't actually mean eating; what I mean is that realistically, a superpower with alsmost two billion citizens with rising demands and standards of living, without much regard to either the environment or many values that "we hold dear", and with a very sly and nihilistic way of conducting policy is a very reak thread whether or not it is correct to acknowledge that.


It's quality vs quantity dilemma, but that has little to do with the issue above.

I don't even understand what youre saying. Are you saying that America and Western countries don't use more than their share? You're saying that "China's gonna do worse, so don't give me any trouble." That's really pathetic. You know what engineers and scientists are good for, for weaseling out of moral responsibility. God bless Africans, they should be happier without voracious Western ambition which knows no true happiness and lives in an unhappy womb in perpetuity, no spirituality, only THE MACHINE!

That's because you've stopped taking your meds. I think I'm not the only one having hard time decyphering your babble.


Their share of what ? And even if they do use more, the issue of survival has nothing to do with "fairness".


I'm saying that Chinese and somewhat Indian attitude towards pollution, natural resources and lebensraum projects a very bleak future for the world in general and for those who would like to play by the better rules in particular.


No, they're good at building and maintaining anything worth anything in this world.


They're great at keeping AIDS infestation rate in upper doube digits, and they seem to get happier by chopping up pregnant women when elections don't turn out as they would like to. Why don't you move to Zimbabwe or Malawi and find true happiness there ?

Hey, Confused Clown. Choose one: survival or morality. Which one matters, then we can discuss maturely. At the moment, your value system is twisted.

Hey, same troll with many names, find a playground of your age. I don't think there is a subject under the moon that you can discuss "maturely". Meanwhile, when are you moving to Malawi ?

Rabbi,
I just want to teach you something about thinking.
A human being does not need to make rational arguments about survival. Survival happens involuntarily, it is an unrational process. It is not a discussion about who is better, nature chooses 'fittingness'. It's choosing it now! Only we can't see it. Which is fine because we have no say anyway. When someone talks about 'survival' of a species, about fighting for that 'survival', they are making a moral argument. It is the same moral argument that justified slavery as part of 'evolution' in the 19th C, as well as the moral argument used to kill Jews in the Shoah.
You need to correct your value system, and while you're doing that please remember that Africans are the same species as you, as are Neo-Nazis, rural Chinese, Aborigine animists, and the Pope.

Slavery was an institution that worked for many thousands of years before it got dismantled, and slavery was a path by which people got to a point when they realized that slavely is both detrimental and immoral. But there are no parallel at all between slavery and unsatiable Chinese industrial pollution and appetite for every resource under the earth.

I'm not making an argument for survival of "species". There are no "species" past the fact that both are human. But there is survival of values and societies, and I believe that Western "setup" has more redeeming value then African or Chinese for that matter, mostly because they lack even in the very basic moral values that are the least common "denominator" of the Western (and even more so the Jewish) society . So when it comes to competing for same barrel of oil, one has to reckon that if we choose to be digested and discarded because of moral values, we thus undermine those very values by getting us out of the game.


I don't know if they are the same species. I know that my species didn't see fit to take machetes and go chop up some neighbors when Al Gore lost elections to Bush, yet the best and one of the most civilized countries in Africa did walk down that road just three months ago. The have all the rights a human is entitled to, but only because their "oppressors" chose to document those rights and to make those into something resembling a code of law. But do they have the equal rights as all of us ? It doesn't seem that way. It seems that whenever there is a choice to do something nasty out of some short term egoistical calculation, "they" choose to do so; why do they as a society deserve to be counted as equals ?