The recent news about the politician and the speculation about whether his wife will leave him prompted this post.

What's worse:
1. A married man using the services of a prostitute or
2. A married man having an affair, let's say with a friend, coworker, someone he met on the Internet...?

I was having this discussion yesterday and one of us said a prostitute is worse since it's so sordid and at least with an affair there's a reason and there's some sort of connection that prompted the infidelity so the latter is more understandable. The other one of us said having an affair is worse because at least with a prostitute it's not emotional and an affair means you have a connection to someone other than your wife beyond just piggish sexual needs.

Which is worse? Which type of infidelity is more or less likely to result in breakup of the marriage and which is more or less likely to be able to be worked through to keep the marriage from desolving?

It is said (not by me) that if a man has an affair, the wife can understand (but not necessarily forgive him for it) if he falls in love, because she understands how that can happen. A woman finds it much harder if not impossible to have sex without feelings involved, therefore what she can't accept, is a meaningless encounter just for sexual release eg with a prostitute.

I'm not sure if this is accurate. I have heard that some women even turn a blind eye to their husband's infidelities, particularly if she doesn't choose to provide the particular sexual services provided by her "rival".

That's a separate issue. I'm hoping to discuss the case of a married man being an infidel, either with a professional or with an amateur. As for a wife being the infidel, that's a whole other can of worms. But since you raise the issue, and since I don't (usually) whine when threads go off topic:
The person with whom I was discussing this asked why we are always hearing these types of stories about men who are infidels? Why don't we usually hear news stories about a female who had an encounter with a male (or I guess, female) prostitute? [The person with whom I was speaking had an answer: Men are pigs].

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I also say an affair is worse.

I think that the affair is worse because it involves an emotional connection and in my opinion that makes it a bigger betrayal.

another vote for an affair, for the above-stated reasons

The correct answer: They are BOTH worse!

Yes, how I personally feel is I would feel much worse if MH had an affair that involves his emotions.

But either way I wouldn't want him to touch me again.

BTW this is one of the issues I have with Judaism; that a man can have an affair and his wife isn't obligated to divorce him whereas if she does the same...

prostitute is worse.

I'm confused about what I heard now...maybe I got it wrong. I am talking a psychologist's asssessment of the situation. An affair is, by definition, more than just a one time encounter, right? So by that definition, obviously a woman would feel more betrayed if a man had a full affair than just a one night stand.

But (and you guys will have to answer this one for me please) is it possible for a man to have a long-duration affair with the same woman, and still feel nothing except sexual desire for the woman involved? Because I don't think it is possible for a woman to have such an affair and not get emotionally entangled. They say that even prostitutes have feelings for long term clients. Which is why they probably avoid seeing the same man too often.

So for the wife's sake, does the whole thing revolve around whether the man has real feelings for the other woman or not, or is simply the betrayal, enough either way?

That's clearly not true. Plenty of women have one night stands, etc. just for sexual release.

Interestingly, I read an interview with a, umm, lady of the evening and she stated that she felt no remorse with the married guys and even felt that she was helping their marriages since they were able to use her to get what the wife wasn't providing.

I can try to dig it up, if you'd like.

I wonder if they're telling the truth about that.

is that true though? that a man will only go looking if he's not happy at home?
so if he's having an affair with a friend then he wants the emotion and if he's going for the prostitute then he just wants the physical without any strings?

not saying I agreed with her

What I personally think is that most guys don't stray if the marriage is fulfilling them. This does NOT blame the wives; in some cases it's the husband's fault that marriage is unhealthy to begin with. However, I think it's fair to look at the marriage when something like this happens.

i think it's generally pretty accurate assumption. of course, then we have all the movies about pouring their souls out to the one night stand girls and ending up connecting and marrying them, but i believe these are the exceptions rather than the rule

i'm not sure i agree. i think that a lot of times the situation presents itself and the man doesn't take a second to think about the consequences. like if he has the hotts for his secretary and one evening they end up alone in the office working on some big case, and then "it just happens." i don't think it's necessarily planned and once it's done once and he doesn't get caught, it gets easier every time.
in this situation, the prostitute is worse because he actually plans it out and knows what he's doing, not just doing it in the moment.

to take a completely unrelated example, how often do we find ourselves with some really juicy gossip about the Nextdoors that we just *have* to tell someone? that someone i know is dating someone you know, or so and so is having a baby, or so and so is about to lose their job?

Telling someone juicy gossip is a real case of "it just slipped out" which we usually regret when the ripples start. Are you saying that sex with his secretary is a case of similar proportions only the quoted bit is going in the opposite direction? I won't be more graphic than that. (possibly without the ripples however, unless his secretary turns out to be Glenn Close)

Ripples? Was that the best word you could come up with?

in this case, i guess, the situation can definitely present itself,a nd the woman can even make advances and the man gets caught up in the heat fo the moment and "it just happens". BUT i don't agree with the last sentence - that would be planned already



no comment on her brilliant quote part. YOU should appreciate it

Having an affair is obviously much much worse, from the POV of the spouse, than using services. Not even close. I don't understand how that can even be a question.

Also related to the scandal, I read an interview with some p!mp escort service owner, and he said that the sex is a small part of what his girls do. "Let's just say that sex lasts for about two minutes and the rest of the time the girl is schmoozing him and feeding his ego."

Throw that into the mix of "all men are pigs."

we were discussing it at work - that maybe they are like geishas

Female egos don't need to be fed?

I would think that the prostitute is worse because of the higher likelyhood of him contracting a STD and giving it to the wife. Cheating is cheating so who it's with might not matter as much as the first issue.

good and scary point.

They're both such horrible thoughts that I hate having to choose between them

I think they're equally awful. I could never forgive a cheating spouse. But people say that if it ever comes to that, it becomes easier to look away and pretend it never happened, for the sake of the kids, the sake of the marriage, the sake of the fact you once loved each other...

I dunno.



We do it ourselves.

[alternatively: women don't get caught].

i agree.

oh, it's certainly possible.

Very interesting. I am taking a philosophy course where a particular thinker posits that men and women have different mating strategies which translates into different priorities. We are programmed from our hunter/gatherer days to look for particular things in our mates. Men produce millions of sperm a day and are interested in sexual variety since this is an effective way to reproduce further. Women on the other hand have one viable egg per month and are out of reproductive commission once they are pregnant or nursing. All they need is one man - but he has to be capable and she has to be reasonably sure he won't leave her once she is pregnant and/or caring for children. Men on the other hand look for signs of health and fertility.

What this all means is that men care much more about who has sex with who than women do. This is because a woman can be sure her kid is hers - a man can't (or at least couldn't before DNA tests). All a man can do is choose a woman who seems loyal. Thus the premium on virginity - it's an effective way of making sure your new mate is not already pregnant by someone else. This is all to make sure you don't end up diverting resources to a kid who's not even yours. A woman's interest, on the other hand, is in making sure her man is emotionally loyal to her. When her man cheats on her, sure the sex is upsetting, but what she's really afraid of is that her man will leave her (and possible kids) and give his resources to another woman.

So what we end up with is men being more much more upset about their wife having a one night meaningless stand than if she had a deep, long lasting emotional affair with kissing involved. Women on the other hand are usually more willing to forgive when the sex is meaningless although they are not thrilled with it. Emotional affairs on the other hand, whether or not there was sex involved are often intolerable to women. This is something men don't get - they figure it's okay as long there was no actual sex.

Credit where credit is due.

When I made my original post I edited it three times because I couldn't remember which way round it was; who was more upset and why, and you have put it so succinctly. So the men get upset if the women are emotionally involved if there is no sex but can't tolerate her having sex, meaningless or otherwise. But the women are more willing to forgive the meaningless sex because there is less chance of him leaving her.

Have I got it right this time?

Thank you.


Yes, you got it right.

So it seems we women are more forgiving in general. If the men are upset with us whether or not we have sex, as long as we get involved with someone else, whereas the women are willing to forgive meaningless sex. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "willing to forgive." I'm not sure I would.

Yup

Why would you find this so hard to believe? Many of them are telling the truth about that.
Yeah, we were discussing this whole thing at lunch today too.

Halachically speaking, it’s far better to do a prostitute than married frum woman.

mosheshmeal
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What about a prostitute vs. a married Jewish woman who isn't frum but is rather beneath your religious contempt?
Does it matter if the prostitute is Jewish? if she's frum?

melech
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Sorry, I meant Jewish, married Halachically.

If the prostitute is Jewish I suppose Niddah issues would likely apply as well.

mosheshmeal
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ahh...understood.

melech
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I'll take your word for it.

oy vey!

Well not really. Both men and women aren't happy when their spouse cheats - however it's done. It's just a question of what men and women consider intolerable. For men it's sex, even if there wasn't an emotional relationship. For women, it's an emotional relationship even if there was no sex.