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melech
I know this is really dumb, but can someone please tell me the zip code for 287 Ocean Avenue in NY?

[I'm trying to fill out an application for an absentee ballot and that was my last US address]

ETA: it has a small box for "race". They do that in the US??? Do I have to answer? What do I answer?

ETA: is that Kings County?
Tova
11225

ETA: if race is optional, do what you want. otherwise, do what you want.

ETA: Yes, Brooklyn is Kings County.
Goldfish
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:18 PM) *
ETA: it has a small box for "race".... What do I answer?

Is there a reason why you wouldn't put down "Non-Hispanic White" or "Caucasian" (depending on what categories the form has)?
melech
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 14 2008, 12:25 PM) *
Is there a reason why you wouldn't put down "Non-Hispanic White" or "Caucasian" (depending on what categories the form has)?

I'm Canadian. I'm not used to declaring race. Nobody here ever asks that. It's like asking religion: it's irrelavent here.
anyway, it's a really small box with room for like one letter, the same size as the box for "sex" [I assume they mean gender]
Elana
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:18 PM) *
that was my last US address]

ETA: it has a small box for "race". Do I have to answer?


really? it must be somewhere near prospect park? what neighborhood is it?

why, are you ashamed? laugh.gif
Pure Myrrh
Your query is not complete.

Did you mean:
287 Ocean Ave, Lynbrook, NY 11563
287 Ocean Ave, Brooklyn, Kings, NY 11225
287 Ocean Ave, Massapequa Park, Nassau, NY 11762
287 Ocean Ave, Islip, Suffolk, NY 11751
287 Ocean Ave, Lawrence, Nassau, NY 11559
287 Ocean Ave, Northport, Suffolk, NY 11768
287 Ocean Ave, Amityville, Suffolk, NY 11701
287 Ocean Ave, Brentwood, Suffolk, NY 11717
melech
QUOTE (Tova @ Mar 14 2008, 12:21 PM) *
11225

ETA: if race is optional, do what you want. otherwise, do what you want.

ETA: Yes, Brooklyn is Kings County.

thanks.
i'm not sure if race is optional, it just has a space for it and it says to enter the information.
Elana
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:27 PM) *
I'm Canadian. I'm not used to declaring race. Nobody here ever asks that. It's like asking religion: it's irrelavent here.
anyway, it's a really small box with room for like one letter,


sometimes they need it for statistical purposes (dont' know about this specific form, in general). just put "W"
Yehudi
I think it is optional (is there a option for "other"? I think there is)

What made you decide now after all these years to vote?
Goldfish
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:27 PM) *
I'm Canadian. I'm not used to declaring race. Nobody here ever asks that. It's like asking religion: it's irrelavent here.
anyway, it's a really small box with room for like one letter, the same size as the box for "sex" [I assume they mean gender]

Eh, I was just joking that it sounded like you were having some confusion over what race you are.
melech
QUOTE (Pure Myrrh @ Mar 14 2008, 12:29 PM) *
Your query is not complete.

Did you mean:
287 Ocean Ave, Lynbrook, NY 11563
287 Ocean Ave, Brooklyn, Kings, NY 11225
287 Ocean Ave, Massapequa Park, Nassau, NY 11762
287 Ocean Ave, Islip, Suffolk, NY 11751
287 Ocean Ave, Lawrence, Nassau, NY 11559
287 Ocean Ave, Northport, Suffolk, NY 11768
287 Ocean Ave, Amityville, Suffolk, NY 11701
287 Ocean Ave, Brentwood, Suffolk, NY 11717

the one in Brooklyn near Crown Heights across from Prospect Park

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v336/mel...nt=DSC02603.jpg
Tova
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:29 PM) *
thanks.
i'm not sure if race is optional, it just has a space for it and it says to enter the information.

You could be a nudnik and write 'Yes' next to race or next to sex write 'Yes' or 'No'

I think, personal opinion, that filling out race is irrelevant (i filled out a form recently an inquired as to when i was white, non-asian)-- it's for statistical purposes...like the stupid separate lines, poll booths, etc. for the primary- you're supposed to be anonymous, you clearly aren't, while they're taking your name, signature and certifying your vote.

QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 14 2008, 12:32 PM) *
Eh, I was just joking that it sounded like you were having some confusion over what race you are.

What if you're a Jew from South Africa, Kenya or Zimbabwe that now lives in the US-- sounds African-American to me...it's all perception. Would a Jew born in Shanghai during WWII write down Asian?
melech
QUOTE (Yehudi @ Mar 14 2008, 12:32 PM) *
I think it is optional (is there a option for "other"? I think there is)

What made you decide now after all these years to vote?

I vote in federal elections. I've done it before. but the way these things work is they first send me a postcard to fill out, an application that comes automatically every 4 years. So I fill out the application and then they send me a federal ballot. They don't send the ballot automatically, just the application for the ballot.
I had photocopied the application and just copy the information each time, but I can't find it so I'm starting from scratch.
Tova
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:32 PM) *
the one in Brooklyn near Crown Heights across from Prospect Park

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v336/mel...nt=DSC02603.jpg

Near the library and traffic circle- thing I guess
melech
QUOTE (Tova @ Mar 14 2008, 12:35 PM) *
You could be a nudnik and write 'Yes' next to race or next to sex write 'Yes' or 'No'

Well, I'm definitely in favor of sex so I would go for 'Yes'.
Tova
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:36 PM) *
I vote in federal elections. I've done it before. but the way these things work is they first send me a postcard to fill out, an application that comes automatically every 4 years. So I fill out the application and then they send me a federal ballot. They don't send the ballot automatically, just the application for the ballot.
I had photocopied the application and just copy the information each time, but I can't find it so I'm starting from scratch.

I had faith in the melech filing system-- I just got my stuff organized for this year.
melech
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:36 PM) *
I vote in federal elections. I've done it before. but the way these things work is they first send me a postcard to fill out, an application that comes automatically every 4 years. So I fill out the application and then they send me a federal ballot. They don't send the ballot automatically, just the application for the ballot.
I had photocopied the application and just copy the information each time, but I can't find it so I'm starting from scratch.

Shoot! The idiot that I am I just sealed the envelope without photocopying the applicant. blush.gif Duh!
Goldfish
QUOTE (Tova @ Mar 14 2008, 12:35 PM) *
What if you're a Jew from South Africa, Kenya or Zimbabwe that now lives in the US-- sounds African-American to me...it's all perception. Would a Jew born in Shanghai during WWII write down Asian?

That's an old joke.
melech
QUOTE (Tova @ Mar 14 2008, 12:37 PM) *
I had faith in the melech filing system

Hey, I'm not proud of this.
But I did find my passport number and SS number in the computer file where I saved both scans. sunny.gif
Eliyahu
If you're ethnic Jewish you can check "other" for race, ethnic Jews are recognized as a separate race by fed.gov. Jews are Semites, and Semites aren't 'Caucasian' except by Jews that are afraid to be anything except 'white'. I actually checked every option except 'Hispanic' on a federal form that said to "check all that apply", but keep in mind that I'm of mixed ancestry that includes Caucasian and American Native.

Eli
Tova
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:38 PM) *
Shoot! The idiot that I am I just sealed the envelope without photocopying the applicant. blush.gif Duh!

If it's an official envelope- steam it open.

QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:40 PM) *
Hey, I'm not proud of this.
But I did find my passport number and SS number in the computer file where I saved both scans. sunny.gif

Open the files (of such important docs) are password protected with a password you remember. (we have to many codes, passwords, logins these days!)
melech
QUOTE (Tova @ Mar 14 2008, 12:41 PM) *
If it's an official envelope- steam it open.

Forget it. It was obviously meant to be. I'll just have to bookmark this thread for 2012 CE.
Goldfish
QUOTE (Eliyahu @ Mar 14 2008, 12:40 PM) *
If you're ethnic Jewish you can check "other" for race, ethnic Jews are recognized as a separate race by fed.gov.

That's not true. And what's fed.gov? All I get is a blank screen when I click on it.
Tova
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 14 2008, 12:45 PM) *
That's not true. And what's fed.gov? All I get is a blank screen when I click on it.

maybe he didn't mean a website, but rather fed. [space] gov -i.e. the Federal Government
melech
QUOTE (Tova @ Mar 14 2008, 12:41 PM) *
Open the files (of such important docs) are password protected with a password you remember. (we have to many codes, passwords, logins these days!)

Yeah. I have a file with scans of all our passports and birth certificates etc etc etc. Very useful. Even a photo of my ketuvah. Ya never know.
And nobody will ever figure out the password - it's my first name followed by the gematria of chai. How's that for clever?
Tova
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:50 PM) *
Yeah. I have a file with scans of all our passports and birth certificates etc etc etc. Very useful. Even a photo of my ketuvah. Ya never know.

Smart, gotta do that stuff one day-- along with scanning the mounds of family photos which need to be sent around for IDs of people we can't name.
Goldfish
QUOTE (Tova @ Mar 14 2008, 12:49 PM) *
maybe he didn't mean a website, but rather fed. [space] gov -i.e. the Federal Government

Well, it doesn't matter what he meant, because he's still wrong. Here's a form with the Federal government's definition of races:

http://www.hud.gov/offices/adm/hudclips/fo...files/27061.pdf
QUOTE
The five racial categories as revised by the Office of Management and Budget are defined below:

American Indian or Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as “Haitian” or “Negro” can be used in addition to “Black” or “African American.”

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.

White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East or North Africa.
krumlikeapretzel
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 14 2008, 10:53 AM) *
Well, it doesn't matter what he meant, because he's still wrong. Here's a form with the Federal government's definition of races:
I was about to say that I never understood why "Hispanic" is considered a race since Mexicans, Guatemalans, Peruvians, Bolivians and Paraguayans are generally native American, white or a mixture of both; Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Brazilians, Venezuelans, Panamanians and Colombians are generally black, white or a mixture of both; and Argentines, Uruguayans and Chileans are generally white. Then again it
 makes perfect sense that "Hispanic" is not included in that list.

Why are Japanese, Taiwanese and Philipinos not considered "Pacific Islanders"? And for those who include "Hispanic" as a race, why are Philippinos not "Hispanic"? What about Sephardim? What about Spaniards and Portuguese? Angolans?

With my apologies to Eliyahu, "Semite" isn't a race. Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews are white. Arabs are either white, black or a mixture of both.
Eliyahu
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 14 2008, 11:45 AM) *
That's not true. And what's fed.gov? All I get is a blank screen when I click on it.

QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 14 2008, 11:53 AM) *
Well, it doesn't matter what he meant, because he's still wrong. Here's a form with the Federal government's definition of races:

Fed.gov is the federal government. And it is true, there was a discrimination case filed about 20 years ago by a secular Jew that went to SCOTUS and established that Jews are a race. And the fed.gov definition of 'white' is just wrong, it's political and not scientific. FYI fed.gov also says Uzbekistan is in Europe...
Funny how 50 years ago birth certificates said "Hebrew" when it was a Jewish child.

Eli
krumlikeapretzel
QUOTE (Eliyahu @ Mar 14 2008, 11:21 AM) *
Fed.gov is the federal government. And it is true, there was a discrimination case filed about 20 years ago by a secular Jew that went to SCOTUS and established that Jews are a race. And the fed.gov definition of 'white' is just wrong, it's political and not scientific. FYI fed.gov also says Uzbekistan is in Europe...
Funny how 50 years ago birth certificates said "Hebrew" when it was a Jewish child.

Eli
They don't seem to know the difference between race and ethnicity. And it's by far not such a subtle one like sex and gender which they also mix up.
Goldfish
QUOTE
Fed.gov is the federal government
You got a screenshot of that?

QUOTE
And it is true, there was a discrimination case filed about 20 years ago by a secular Jew that went to SCOTUS and established that Jews are a race.

Yeah? What\'s the name of the case?

QUOTE
And the fed.gov definition of \'white\' is just wrong, it\'s political and not scientific.

rolleyes.gif

More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethn...d_States_Census
For Krum:
QUOTE
The fact that the label of Hispanic has increasingly been used in forms and surveys under the category of Race, has led to an uproar of criticism. \"The term Hispanic, and its cousin Latino, are used blithely all the time, often in the same breath with the other strictly racial categories\" [15] writes Alfredo Tryferis, a columnist for the online periodical Raw Story who describes himself as an Argentine who is racially white.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28class...human_beings%29
krumlikeapretzel
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 14 2008, 11:34 AM) *
Thanks smile.gif
Rachel8
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:27 PM) *
I'm Canadian. I'm not used to declaring race. Nobody here ever asks that. It's like asking religion: it's irrelavent here.

I'm not sure what being Canadian has to do with it. I've definitely been asked to declare my race on forms in Canada in the last couple of years, just probably not on government related forms. Large employers in Canada absolutely collect such information from their employees (so they can provide the government with statistics on the diversity of their workforce).

You're lucky that the U.S. government lets you register to vote far in advance of the election. Whenever I try to register to vote in the Canadian federal elections from the U.S., the turnaround time from the time they announce the date of the election until the absentee ballot is received and then has to be returned is very brief, making voting from here next to impossible.
politico
QUOTE (Eliyahu @ Mar 14 2008, 12:21 PM) *
And it is true, there was a discrimination case filed about 20 years ago by a secular Jew that went to SCOTUS and established that Jews are a race.

i'll second the call for the case citation.
QUOTE
it's political and not scientific.

yeah, scientific racialism pretty much went out of style when the nazis took it to its logical conclusion.
QUOTE
Funny how 50 years ago birth certificates said "Hebrew" when it was a Jewish child.

funny, my mother's just about that age and her birth certificate doesn't say "hebrew." which states' birth certificates are you referring to?

for those interested in the politics of racial classification, there's a lot of ongoing research into how/why different countries with noticeable population diversity do things differently and the implications of their differences. the book jumping to mind is melissa nobles, shades of citizenship: race and the census in modern politics (stanford UP, 2000).
melech
QUOTE (Rachel8 @ Mar 14 2008, 04:40 PM) *
I've definitely been asked to declare my race on forms in Canada in the last couple of years, just probably not on government related forms. Large employers in Canada absolutely collect such information from their employees (so they can provide the government with statistics on the diversity of their workforce).

Definitely not a government forms, in my experience. I can't remember EVER having been asked race. Never.
And if I were asked on an employer's form, I would find that incredibly bizarre and even invasive.
Rachel8
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 06:01 PM) *
Definitely not a government forms, in my experience. I can't remember EVER having been asked race. Never.

I can't recall all the examples right now, but it's not so rare in my opinion. As for never, how about the 2006 Canadian census form which is a government form and which was mandatory. I'm pretty sure you would have had to fill in your race for that.

ETA: Here's the link to the questions where you will see that race is included (question 19), so I guess you must have answered after all.wink.gif
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/i.../index.cfm?S=11

QUOTE
And if I were asked on an employer's form, I would find that incredibly bizarre and even invasive.
It happens all the time, and it's not just employers, it's employment agencies, consulting firms, etc... As for being invasive, it doesn't bother me in the slightest and in my opinion checking a box for my race is far less invasive than having to go for FBI fingerprining or drug tests for your employer, both things I've had to do in the U.S.
Kalashnikover_Rebbe
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 14 2008, 06:39 PM) *
That's an old joke.

It's NO joke. I have several friends who went to college for free because of their "ethnicity".....

That said, I never declare my race, and if they make me I choose the most outlandish option available.......
Goldfish
QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 15 2008, 01:13 PM) *
It's NO joke. I have several friends who went to college for free because of their "ethnicity".....

That's nice, because it's geneivah on so many levels.
shaya_getzl
QUOTE (melech @ Mar 14 2008, 12:18 PM) *
I know this is really dumb, but can someone please tell me the zip code for 287 Ocean Avenue in NY?

[I'm trying to fill out an application for an absentee ballot and that was my last US address]

ETA: it has a small box for "race". They do that in the US??? Do I have to answer? What do I answer?

ETA: is that Kings County?


Dude, that building sucks ...

QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 15 2008, 01:13 PM) *
It's NO joke. I have several friends who went to college for free because of their "ethnicity".....

That's a great miztvah. There shoud be a special scholarship for people who do that ...
Kalashnikover_Rebbe
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 16 2008, 03:35 AM) *
That's nice, because it's geneivah on so many levels.

Why is it "Genivah"? One of them was really "African American", and the other Hispanic.
If they want to be so politically correct that they can't say black or white, they deserve whatever they get......
Goldfish
QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 15 2008, 10:29 PM) *
Why is it "Genivah"? One of them was really "African American", and the other Hispanic.

That's sophistry. "African American" means black and everybody knows it. It does not literally mean a person of any race who was born in Africa. Arabs from Egypt are not African American any more than Jews from South Africa. To exploit the literal meaning is geneivat da'at because the person who is reading the application believes the applicant to be black, when he's not. And it's plain geneiva of money because he's taking a scholarship (money) that he's not entitled to, and he's taking it out of the hands of a person who almost certainly needs it more than he does.

QUOTE
If they want to be so politically correct that they can't say black or white, they deserve whatever they get......

Nobody "deserves" to be robbed.
Kalashnikover_Rebbe
QUOTE (Goldfish @ Mar 16 2008, 04:40 AM) *
That's sophistry. "African American" means black and everybody knows it. It does not literally mean a person of any race who was born in Africa. Arabs from Egypt are not African American any more than Jews from South Africa. To exploit the literal meaning is geneivat da'at because the person who is reading the application believes the applicant to be black, when he's not. And it's plain geneiva of money because he's taking a scholarship (money) that he's not entitled to, and he's taking it out of the hands of a person who almost certainly needs it more than he does.

I don't even know where to start.....

Using PC terminology such as "African-American" is sophistry.
And a white African is no less eligible or entitled than a black one. If they want to make a scholarship for Blacks they should be more precise with their language. I see nothing at all wrong with taking advantage of an opportunity even if it is a "loophole". Why should a Black who doesn't even know where Africa is, be considered more "African" than someone born there???

As for "needing it" more, that is a disgustingly racist statement. Are there no rich Black People? Are there no millionaires in Mexico City?? Are Argentinians whose parents or grandparents came from Germany really "Hispanic"?? Are there no White people who can't afford 40 grand a year for college?? How pure does your blood need to be in order for it not to be "genivah"? These scholarships are merit based, not need based so if someone qualifies and has the grades why SHOULDN'T they take it???
Goldfish
QUOTE (Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Mar 15 2008, 10:55 PM) *
Using PC terminology such as "African-American" is sophistry.

You don't know what the word sophistry means, clearly. And all of your arguments that come after this statement are more of the same.
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