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Spot
Megillat Esther literally means 'the revealing of secrets.' Here's one secret revealed I heard at a Discovery seminar.

"If it pleases the king let the Jews of shushan be permitted to act tomorrow also as they did today and let Haman’s ten sons be impaled on the stake."

But weren't the sons already dead? Weren't they hung already?

Could be that "the king" here refers to The King, and that tomorrow = future tomorrow, not necessarily the day after today.

Haman had 10 sons and a daughter (remember her? She committed suicide after realizing she dumped trash all over her father thinking it was Mordechai).

In 1946, the Jewish year 5707, the Nuremberg Trials took place. Ten nazi's were hung, and Goering, another Nazi known to have a 'thing' for women's clothes, committed suicide.

In every correct megillah written, the ten sons of Haman are written the same way, in a column with three letters that are smaller than the rest. If I recall correctly, it's the Taf in Parshandata, the Shin in Parmashta and the Zain in Visata.

Taf Shin Zain = 707.

If you look at the Vav on the last name, Vasata, it's larger than the rest of the letters. The sixth time 707 came around was 5707. (First 707, then 1707, 2707, 3707, 4707, 5707).

I wonder what else Esther predicted for us for the future...

Fromhere:

On October 16, 1946, as foreshadowed in the names of Haman's ten sons, ten Nazi leaders were hanged as war criminals. ... out of nowhere, with the rope around his neck, Julius Schtreicher - editor of Der Sturmer, the Nazi propaganda newspaper - shouted out with flaming hatred in his eyes, just as the trap door opened, 'Purimfest 1946'!"
Aristotle
I've heard that somewhere before.
Yehudi
See here http://www.hashkafah.com/index.php?showtopic=8302

int
That's a famous one. The question is - what other secrets are in megillas Esther? I'm sure there are many.
investor relations
QUOTE(Spot @ Mar 9 2005, 11:11 PM)
On October 16, 1946, as foreshadowed in the names of Haman's ten sons, ten Nazi leaders were hanged as war criminals. ... out of nowhere, with the rope around his neck, Julius Schtreicher - editor of Der Sturmer, the Nazi propaganda newspaper - shouted out with flaming hatred in his eyes, just as the trap door opened, 'Purimfest 1946'!"
[right][snapback]177291[/snapback][/right]

Ive heard of this, but ive never actually seen a historical source for it. It isnt even in the movie "Nuremberg".
Spot
I googled Schtreicher and Purimfest and it came up. There are tons of articles on it if you're interested in reading more.
investor relations
QUOTE(Spot @ Mar 9 2005, 11:34 PM)
I googled Schtreicher and Purimfest and it came up.  There are tons of articles on it if you're interested in reading more.
[right][snapback]177317[/snapback][/right]

Hmmm, Ill have to check that up.
investor relations
Back from google, very interesting indeed.
Spot
I can't find the link now, but earlier, I looked for more info on Goering and found he wore women's clothes under his uniform. Interesting as he serves as "Haman's daughter" in the scheme of things.
shim
He apparently said "Dies ist mein Purimfest 1946" not just "Purimfest 1946". I've always heard the quote as "Purimfest 1946" and thought "wow, that's amazing! It makes no sense!" but I googled it and found out that the full quote was "Dies ist mein Purimfest 1946" or "this is my Purim holiday, 1946".

I'm not so sure that there is anything particularly mysterious about him saying this. Many Nazis knew a thing or two about Judaism and could definitely have connected their attempted genocide of the Jews, subsequent defeat and imminent hanging with Purim.

As far as the enlarged letters, its interesting for sure. Maybe its a remez for this, maybe not.
melech
Of course the German murderers knew about the Jewish holidays. They were particular to schedule aktions on Jewish holidays.
mosheshmeal
Bumped for Purim.

mosheshmeal
.
Reva
Only a tad though
Liorah-Lleucu
QUOTE(Spot @ Mar 9 2005, 10:11 PM) [snapback]177291[/snapback]

Megillat Esther literally means 'the revealing of secrets.' Here's one secret revealed I heard at a Discovery seminar.

Here's a secret that was revealed to me: my newest megillah.
rashi613
QUOTE(investor relations @ Mar 9 2005, 08:33 PM) [snapback]177316[/snapback]

Ive heard of this, but ive never actually seen a historical source for it. It isnt even in the movie "Nuremberg".

I saw a copy of time or newsweek (can't remember which) magazine that had the whole thing.
This Torah is from Rabbi Schwab A"H, I think.
Liorah-Lleucu
QUOTE(int @ Mar 9 2005, 10:26 PM) [snapback]177308[/snapback]

That's a famous one. The question is - what other secrets are in megillas Esther? I'm sure there are many.

Good question. I bet there are too.
Iknowit
QUOTE(liorah @ Mar 6 2006, 03:48 PM) [snapback]478524[/snapback]

Good question. I bet there are too.


Isn't it true that esther had green skin?
http://www.aish.com/purimbasics/purimbasic...ah_Overview.asp

her name was hadas becuase her skin was the color of myrtle leaves.


how is it possible to have green skin?



Thursday
QUOTE(Iknowit @ Mar 7 2006, 08:54 PM) [snapback]480182[/snapback]

Isn't it true that esther had green skin?
http://www.aish.com/purimbasics/purimbasic...ah_Overview.asp

her name was hadas becuase her skin was the color of myrtle leaves.
how is it possible to have green skin?

More importantly, who would give her a shidduch dressed like that?
Iknowit
QUOTE(yadfothgildloc @ Mar 7 2006, 09:53 PM) [snapback]480335[/snapback]

More importantly, who would give her a shidduch dressed like that?

what does this mean?
Iknowit

sounds crazy but

i have thought about this and i realize that esther was so pretty becuase she had green skin. it is human nature to seek out novelty and diversity. For example; if you were say very dark skinned and had visited a country which the people are all blond and blue eyed,. You would become an instant hit with the opposite sex. if you were a female you would have men crawling up and down to get to know you
This effect would be considerably magnified if you were of a nonhuman skin color. Becuase at the most basic biological level we seek genetic diversity, a green skin tone would immediately set off hormones that would say at the most unconcious level " she is definitely not my sister" multiplied to the fact that green is the most visible color that our eye pick up. there would not be a way of ignoring her.
if today that there was a way to turn the skin green without paints or dyes, There would be a instant billion dollar market especially with new make up foundation colors and all.


I think that the rabbi's most definitely missed this point and overspiritualized again.
accolade
QUOTE(Iknowit @ Mar 9 2006, 04:18 AM) [snapback]481981[/snapback]

sounds crazy but

i have thought about this and i realize that esther was so pretty becuase she had green skin. it is human nature to seek out novelty and diversity. For example; if you were say very dark skinned and had visited a country which the people are all blond and blue eyed,. You would become an instant hit with the opposite sex. if you were a female you would have men crawling up and down to get to know you
This effect would be considerably magnified if you were of a nonhuman skin color. Becuase at the most basic biological level we seek genetic diversity, a green skin tone would immediately set off hormones that would say at the most unconcious level " she is definitely not my sister" multiplied to the fact that green is the most visible color that our eye pick up. there would not be a way of ignoring her.
if today that there was a way to turn the skin green without paints or dyes, There would be a instant billion dollar market especially with new make up foundation colors and all.
I think that the rabbi's most definitely missed this point and overspiritualized again.

Sounds crazy but.
goodgirl
so wierd!
Liorah-Lleucu
anomalies are rather interesting, true

For instance, in a relationship where individuals love one another, it tends to be the anomalies and imperfections of our beloved that we find endearing - not the normal stuff we have in common.
Iknowit
What if you were the type of person who though that a green skinned girl would be attractive and you asked hashem if you were to meet such a person that he would give you a sign
and a few days later this appeared
link
what would you do?
DeepQuest
QUOTE(Spot @ Mar 9 2005, 11:11 PM) [snapback]177291[/snapback]
Fromhere:

On October 16, 1946, as foreshadowed in the names of Haman's ten sons, ten Nazi leaders were hanged as war criminals. ... out of nowhere, with the rope around his neck, Julius Schtreicher - editor of Der Sturmer, the Nazi propaganda newspaper - shouted out with flaming hatred in his eyes, just as the trap door opened, 'Purimfest 1946'!"


I don't get that huh2.gif
Pinchas
QUOTE(DeepQuest @ Dec 21 2006, 08:59 AM) [snapback]741944[/snapback]
I don't get that huh2.gif


What's not to get... even he knew what was going on and the connection to Purim.
DeepQuest
QUOTE(Pinchas @ Dec 21 2006, 02:02 AM) [snapback]741946[/snapback]
What's not to get... even he knew what was going on and the connection to Purim.

purimfest sounds like a party to me, what does purimfest mean in Deutsch?
p_almonius
QUOTE(DeepQuest @ Dec 21 2006, 09:12 AM) [snapback]741948[/snapback]
purimfest sounds like a party to me, what does purimfest mean in Deutsch?

Celebration. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festschrift.
lavi chegal
impaled on a steak?

wouldn't that be tsar beulei chaim?
asoul
QUOTE(int @ Mar 9 2005, 11:26 PM) *
That's a famous one. The question is - what other secrets are in megillas Esther? I'm sure there are many.


It seems in the verses Esther 1:1-6 "between the lines" I have found information about the kabbalistic teaching what is called 'tisha-shesh' and is connected with trembling and resurrection. I don't know whether such teaching exists really.
Gabbe
QUOTE(Spot @ Mar 9 2005, 11:11 PM) *
Megillat Esther literally means 'the revealing of secrets.' Here's one secret revealed I heard at a Discovery seminar.

"If it pleases the king let the Jews of shushan be permitted to act tomorrow also as they did today and let Haman’s ten sons be impaled on the stake."

But weren't the sons already dead? Weren't they hung already?

Could be that "the king" here refers to The King, and that tomorrow = future tomorrow, not necessarily the day after today.

Haman had 10 sons and a daughter (remember her? She committed suicide after realizing she dumped trash all over her father thinking it was Mordechai).

In 1946, the Jewish year 5707, the Nuremberg Trials took place. Ten nazi's were hung, and Goering, another Nazi known to have a 'thing' for women's clothes, committed suicide.

In every correct megillah written, the ten sons of Haman are written the same way, in a column with three letters that are smaller than the rest. If I recall correctly, it's the Taf in Parshandata, the Shin in Parmashta and the Zain in Visata.

Taf Shin Zain = 707.

If you look at the Vav on the last name, Vasata, it's larger than the rest of the letters. The sixth time 707 came around was 5707. (First 707, then 1707, 2707, 3707, 4707, 5707).

I wonder what else Esther predicted for us for the future...

Fromhere:

On October 16, 1946, as foreshadowed in the names of Haman's ten sons, ten Nazi leaders were hanged as war criminals. ... out of nowhere, with the rope around his neck, Julius Schtreicher - editor of Der Sturmer, the Nazi propaganda newspaper - shouted out with flaming hatred in his eyes, just as the trap door opened, 'Purimfest 1946'!"

Here's a secret: That's crud!
Spot
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 13 2008, 10:41 AM) *
Here's a secret: That's crud!

that's an opinion, not a secret. you can't just say it's crud without explaining.
Gabbe
QUOTE(Spot @ Mar 9 2005, 11:11 PM) *
Megillat Esther literally means 'the revealing of secrets.' Here's one secret revealed I heard at a Discovery seminar.
Already suspicious.
QUOTE
"If it pleases the king let the Jews of shushan be permitted to act tomorrow also as they did today and let Haman’s ten sons be impaled on the stake."

Hanged, not impaled.
QUOTE
But weren't the sons already dead? Weren't they hung already?

Yes. No.
QUOTE
In every correct megillah written, the ten sons of Haman are written the same way, in a column with three letters that are smaller than the rest. If I recall correctly, it's the Taf in Parshandata, the Shin in Parmashta and the Zain in Visata.
Taf Shin Zain = 707.

Jewish years cannt be referenced in the Megillah because the Jewish years are off. When we say this year is 5768, we're only using a convention that was created to make dating paperwork easier. The world was not created 5,768 years ago, even if you are a Bible literalist, etc.
QUOTE
If you look at the Vav on the last name, Vasata, it's larger than the rest of the letters. The sixth time 707 came around was 5707. (First 707, then 1707, 2707, 3707, 4707, 5707).

If you're going to use the inaccurate system of dating by the Jewish calendar, then the year would be ה'תש"ז, not ו.
QUOTE
Fromhere:
ten Nazi leaders were hanged as war criminals...

Eleven, not including Göring. Count 'em. See also here.
Pinchas
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 13 2008, 06:13 PM) *
Jewish years cannt be referenced in the Megillah because the Jewish years are off. When we say this year is 5768, we're only using a convention that was created to make dating paperwork easier. The world was not created 5,768 years ago, even if you are a Bible literalist, etc.

If you're going to use the inaccurate system of dating by the Jewish calendar, then the year would be ה' תש"ז, not ו.
It's the sixth תש"ז.

QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 13 2008, 06:13 PM) *
Eleven, not including Göring. Count 'em. See also here.


I did. Your 11 includes Bormann - who was sentanced to death in absentia - and NOT hanged.
Kalashnikover_Rebbe
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 13 2008, 06:13 PM) *
When we say this year is 5768, we're only using a convention that was created to make dating paperwork easier. The world was not created 5,768 years ago, even if you are a Bible literalist, etc.

Really???
That's not what I've been taught (and read)...
Gabbe
QUOTE(Pinchas @ Jan 13 2008, 02:38 PM) *
It's the sixth תש"ז.

But then you're picking and choosing, because if you're counting zeroes, you have to say that תש"ז is the 707th year of the 6th millenium, which it isn't, because it's the 708th. You can't use two different numbering systems; this is called gematria fraud.
QUOTE
I did. Your 11 includes Bormann - who was sentanced to death in absentia - and NOT hanged.

OK, I'll give you that. I still maintain that the years are off both according to reality, where the year was not 5707, and according to the traditional numbering system, where you either need to add one to accommodate for the fact that 707 is the 708th year in the 6th millenium, or subtract 1000 to account for the fact that the year number began with a 5.
Pinchas
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 13 2008, 09:53 PM) *
But then you're picking and choosing, because if you're counting zeroes, you have to say that תש"ז is the 707th year of the 6th millenium, which it isn't, because it's the 708th. You can't use two different numbering systems; this is called gematria fraud.


Of course you could use two different systems. For one the letters are extra small and for one the letters are extra big.
Gabbe
QUOTE(Kalashnikover_Rebbe @ Jan 13 2008, 02:42 PM) *
Really???
That's not what I've been taught (and read)...

There are a few problems. First, remember that there is a machlokes when the world was created -l'halacha, we seem to hold that it was created in NISSAN, since that is when, in less than a year and a half הבעל"ט, we will make birkas hachama. The year numbers change with Tishrei, though. So the first problem is what the rishonim call שנת תהו -what year number was the world created in?

Even if the world was created in Tishrei, and thus we have no שנת תהו problems, there is the problem of correlating the reigns of the Biblical kings with year numbers. I'm sure you remember from Masseches RH that at least according to some shittos a king can reign for two days, but if they're the right two days they will be considered a year.

I'm told from numerous sources that R. Schwab thought that the calendar was off by as much as 300 some odd years.
Gabbe
QUOTE(Pinchas @ Jan 13 2008, 02:58 PM) *
Of course you could use two different systems. For one the letters are extra small and for one the letters are extra big.

And what difference does it make? And if there is a difference, why couldn't Mordechai and Esther just shrink a heh somewhere and have it be done with?
(By the way, IIRC from the masoretic lists, the vav is not actually big, but long.)

Also, שנות לבריאת העולם is never used in Tanach as a calendrical system. I don't recall it being used anywhere by Chazal either; there was another system called שטרות which is used in the Rambam and Yemenites. It has no halachic basis. Why would the megillah suddenly decide to use it?
Pinchas
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 13 2008, 10:01 PM) *
There are a few problems. First, remember that there is a machlokes when the world was created -l'halacha, we seem to hold that it was created in NISSAN, since that is when, in less than a year and a half הבעל"ט, we will make birkas hachama. The year numbers change with Tishrei, though. So the first problem is what the rishonim call שנת תהו -what year number was the world created in?

Even if the world was created in Tishrei, and thus we have no שנת תהו problems, there is the problem of correlating the reigns of the Biblical kings with year numbers. I'm sure you remember from Masseches RH that at least according to some shittos a king can reign for two days, but if they're the right two days they will be considered a year.

I'm told from numerous sources that R. Schwab thought that the calendar was off by as much as 300 some odd years.


163 years actually! And yes, that is a very good argument.

I guess you could just say those that wrote the megillah with ruach hakodesh knew that people would be keeping track wrong - 163 years off and accounted for that discrepancy.

Also if I'm not mistaken when the megillah was written the 163 year discrepancy was already "in use."
Gabbe
QUOTE(Pinchas @ Jan 13 2008, 03:06 PM) *
I guess you could just say those that wrote the megillah with ruach hakodesh knew that people would be keeping track wrong - 163 years off and accounted for that discrepancy.

Do you actually believe that?
QUOTE
Also if I'm not mistaken when the megillah was written the 163 year discrepancy was already "in use."

It wasn't in use because the megillah never explicitly uses the creation-year system. However, yes, the events leading to the discrepancy had already occurred.
artscroll
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 13 2008, 03:04 PM) *
Also, שנות לבריאת העולם is never used in Tanach as a calendrical system. I don't recall it being used anywhere by Chazal either; there was another system called שטרות which is used in the Rambam and Yemenites. It has no halachic basis. Why would the megillah suddenly decide to use it?

Because we use it.
Gabbe
So since we use a numbering system which at best is pre-Talmudical (though I don't recall it ever being used in the Gemara), we can project it onto a book which was written before then?
artscroll
QUOTE(Gabbe @ Jan 14 2008, 10:31 AM) *
So since we use a numbering system which at best is pre-Talmudical (though I don't recall it ever being used in the Gemara), we can project it onto a book which was written before then?

With Ruach Hakodesh anything is possible.
Gabbe
I just find it bizarre that Ruach HaKodesh would kick in not explicitly in the megillah, where years to Achashverosh's reign are used, but only in the osios-zeiros in the names of Haman's children.
(I wonder if the big letters in the Megillah, Tav and Ches, would be a remez for TaCh?)
artscroll
Once you're thinking about it, you're already not buying it.
RebPropagandist
QUOTE (Spot @ Jan 13 2008, 03:48 AM) *
that's an opinion, not a secret. you can't just say it's crud without explaining.

The burden of proof always lays with the person making the claim. It's crud until it is reasonably proven. A twisted letters game of "hints"is not called reasonably proving.
int
QUOTE (RebPropagandist @ Feb 27 2008, 10:48 AM) *
The burden of proof always lays with the person making the claim. It's crud until it is reasonably proven. A twisted letters game of "hints"is not called reasonably proving.


What do you consider 'reasonably proven'? You do realize that's a subjective notion (by dint of the word 'reasonably')?
Bezalel99
What made the guy yell out "Purimfest"?
Pinchas
QUOTE (Bezalel99 @ Feb 27 2008, 11:58 PM) *
What made the guy yell out "Purimfest"?


The Zionists no doubt.
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